here are the results for the world values survey‘s civicness questions for spain (2007) by region.
i couldn’t sort the results by ethnic group (don’t think they asked that of the people in spain), but i think the vast, vast majority of them must be ethnic spaniards since nearly all of the respondents were roman catholic (and not muslim or something like that). i skipped any region that didn’t have at least 50 respondents. the pale yellow highlights indicate the region that had the highest score for a particular question (click on charts for LARGER view):
i made a map of the regional averages for all these civicness scores. darker shades mean more civicness, lighter shades less. white means not enough data available for those regions. here’s a map with the names of the regions of spain if you don’t know them off the top of your head. (~_^) galicia, btw, should be a lighter shade than the basque region, but that might not be so clear on my map. catalonia ftw! (~_^):
the civicness scores for spain are, across the board, much lower than those we find anywhere in the anglo world including the u.s. it’s hard to tell if there’s a north-south and/or east-west civicness divide in spain because there’s no data for so many of the regions; but it is interesting, i think, that the most southern and most western regions (andalusia and galicia) have such low scores while catalonia in the northeast and madrid have the highest scores. andalusia has had a long history of close marriages, and i suspect the galicians, too, but i’ll have to get back to you on that.
i also think it’s interesting that andalusia and galicia are two of the regions from which many of the spanish settlers in mexico originated — and, as we saw the other day, whites in mexico have some of the lowest civicness scores in that country, relatively speaking. mexico, however, generally has higher civicness scores than spain. go figure.
previously: civic societies and civicness in mexico and la endogamia en la españa medieval and northern vs. southern spanish iq, redux
(note: comments do not require an email. tower house in galicia.)
hbd chick 
I’ve read that some Northwestern Spaniards – Galicians, Asturians – like to think themselves as “fair Celts”. They don’t seem too Northern European here though
@ihtg – galicia is apparently tolkein’s shire. (~_^) (more on pallozas here.)
[…] with Westerners. Edit: HBD Chick has also noted some uncertainties with the exact boundaries on the Iberian Penninsula. More on this in part […]
On the subject of Spain and civicness, I have two maps from a school project that may or may not be related. One is a from a study on what percentage of E.U. structural funds were absorbed by each region in the 1990s and 2000s (more funds absorbed = better governance, according to the paper). The second is from a study on people’s perceptions of the quality of their regional government. (I have a pet hypothesis that civicness and good governance are linked)
I threw them up at my blog, here is map number 1 and
map number 2. It’s interesting to see what ‘lines up’ and what doesn’t. I would love to see your civicness numbers for every region of Spain!
@m.g. – “I threw them up at my blog, here is map number 1 and map number 2. It’s interesting to see what ‘lines up’ and what doesn’t.”
very interesting! thanks. and thanks for the links to those papers (haven’t looked closely at them yet).
unless i’m reading it wrong (am i holding the map upside-down?), it’s funny that both the galicians and the basques seem to think the quality of their governments is high, even though they are some of the least civic people (according to my post). meanwhile, some of the most civic people in spain — the catalonians — have a low opinion of the quality of their government. huh. is that a matter of expectations (catalonians maybe having higher standards?)? or does the galician government really provide more for galicians — or whatever it is spaniards expect their government to do for them? hmmmm.
@m.g. – “more funds absorbed = better governance, according to the paper”
i’m not convinced by that. certainly the PIIGS have probably “absorbed” the most funds from the e.u., but i don’t think those nations have the best governance! i haven’t read the paper, though, so perhaps by “absorbed” they mean actually utilized e.u. funding properly (building roads or schools or whatever) as opposed to fat-cat politicians lining their own pockets.
@m.g. – “I have a pet hypothesis that civicness and good governance are linked”
that would certainly seem to make sense!
@m.g. – “I would love to see your civicness numbers for every region of Spain!”
well, maybe i’ll color in the rest of the map with the less reliable numbers for spain, just to see what it looks like. we’d have to keep in mind, though, that the rest of the numbers are awfully small in terms of sample size.
btw, i’ve now got a similar map made up for france (white folks in france — so french people). gotta work up a post. (^_^) teaser: most of france is more civic than most of spain, but less civic than most of the u.s.
is that a matter of expectations (catalonians maybe having higher standards?)?
I wonder this too, these self-reported surveys are of course by definition super-subjective.
i haven’t read the paper, though, so perhaps by “absorbed” they mean actually utilized e.u. funding properly (building roads or schools or whatever)
Yes, this is the sense I got (but I only skimmed the paper). That unabsorbed funds were the result of lack of organization on the regional government’s part.
well, maybe i’ll color in the rest of the map with the less reliable numbers for spain, just to see what it looks like.
No you’re right, we should use reliable numbers only. The urge to look at the whole map is just very strong, I’m a map fiend…
What’s wrong with maps 1 and 2? they do not make sense at all!! I am old Castilian, that is, from Castile and Leon, which in map 1 is the region receiving the most structural funds (and hence, according to the map, the better functioning government) and map 2, where the opinion people have of their government is the lowest!!
Do you mean that would confirm the “expectations” hypothesis? in that case, castilians and leonese are a much clearer case than Catalans
“i also think it’s interesting that andalusia and galicia are two of the regions from which many of the spanish settlers in mexico originated”
That’s not correct. Galicians provided few settlers to Mexico. The two most influential regional groups that provided settlers to Mexico were Extremadura and Andalusia. I think you’re mistaking Mexico with Cuba and Argentina post 1850.
@the dude – ” I think you’re mistaking Mexico with Cuba and Argentina post 1850.”
no. there was definitely migration from galicia to mexico — mostly in jalisco and down in that area of the country — once known as “neuva galicia.”
but you are right — way more migrants to mexico from southern spain.
@hbd chick – “unless i’m reading it wrong (am i holding the map upside-down?), it’s funny that both the galicians and the basques seem to think the quality of their governments is high, even though they are some of the least civic people (according to my post). meanwhile, some of the most civic people in spain — the catalonians — have a low opinion of the quality of their government. huh. is that a matter of expectations (catalonians maybe having higher standards?)? or does the galician government really provide more for galicians — or whatever it is spaniards expect their government to do for them? hmmmm.”
One aspect that interests me most about the inbreeding/outbreeding view is that it offers evidence for probable political tendencies. This has got me thinking about the politics that stand out in certain populations.
With the Basque, there is the Mondragon Corporation which is a federation of worker cooperatives or what some would call anarcho-syndicalism, a left-libertarian form of socialism. It stands out partly because it has become so successful and has spread beyond the Basque region. It makes me wonder what the Basque are doing right and why so few others have succeeded at this.
The closest other example I’m familiar with is the East Wind Community in the Missouri Ozarks, another example of anarcho-syndicalism. East Wind has run a number of successful businesses over the decades, but it has remained smaller. There have been many other anarcho-syndicalist organizations. I’m only partly informed about this model of social organization and economics. Anarcho-syndicalism seems related to such things as the Shakers and Harmonists, and I’m reminded of the Quaker and Amish way of running businesses through close family and community relationships (a system of self-policing and shared moral guidelines).
The Quakers did this through strong social democracy. The German majority population of Milwaukee also used social democracy to make their municipal socialism work so well and maintain its popular support over more than a half century. The North Dakota government has run a public bank for about a century (socialist in structure and purpose, although not socialist in name), and it isn’t backed by the federal government like private banks nor has it participated in risky gambling as many private banks have done. Plus, there are all the former cooperatives and agrarian socialism throughout all of the farming states, especially in the North.
The Basque, however, would be very different than groups like the Quakers. They are a border people who live in the mountains where they have maintained their separate Celtic genetics, culture and language. They seem to be more typical clannish people. So, does that mean that anarcho-syndicalism might be a more successful form of socialism among clannish people? If so, why haven’t other clannish people implemented successful anarcho-syndicalist organizations?
The complicating factor is that anarcho-syndicalism is also very democratic, at least in examples such as Mondragon Corporation. Clannish people generally aren’t drawn to democratic organization, but maybe something makes the Basque different. Unlike many other clannish people, as you say, “the basques seem to think the quality of their governments is high”. How can they not be very civic and yet give a high rating to the quality of their government? Maybe it depends on what is being measured in terms of being civic or how the questions are being asked.
There is an interesting bit of info I came across.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_American
A fair number of Basques settled in the Western area before and after it became part of the US. The Basque-American population is mostly concentrated on the West Coast and in the Northwest. The state most associated with Basque-Americans is Idaho, and the city most associated is Boise.
There were ties to early America. John Adams admired their government when he visited Basque. It sounds like there may have been some influence on American thought on constitutionalism. Here is what John Adams wrote:
“In a research like this, after those people in Europe who have had the skill, courage, and fortune, to preserve a voice in the government, Biscay, in Spain, ought by no means to be omitted. While their neighbours have long since resigned all their pretensions into the hands of kings and priests, this extraordinary people have preserved their ancient language, genius, laws, government, and manners, without innovation, longer than any other nation of Europe. Of Celtic extraction, they once inhabited some of the finest parts of the ancient Boetica; but their love of liberty, and unconquerable aversion to a foreign servitude, made them retire, when invaded and overpowered in their ancient feats, into these mountainous countries, called by the ancients Cantabria…”
“…It is a republic; and one of the privileges they have most insisted on, is not to have a king: another was, that every new lord, at his accession, should come into the country in person, with one of his legs bare, and take an oath to preserve the privileges of the lordship”
I wonder how their Basque culture has translated once they settled in America. I’m not familiar enough with Idaho’s history to consider what their influence might have been. It would be interesting to know if any Basque-Americans are associated with the Mondragon Corporation.
Craig Willy goes into a fair amount of detail about anarcho-socialism, Here is the post you linked to recently:
http://www.craigwilly.info/2013/07/07/emmanuel-todds-linvention-de-leurope-a-critical-summary/
However, he doesn’t mention the Mondragon Corporation at all. He briefly mentions the Basque, but not in reference to anarcho-socialism. What he does say is this:
“Todd argues that in Spain, France and Italy, areas of anarcho-socialist sentiment (nuclear-egalitarian family values) tend to fall under the superficial control of better organized communist organizations (which only have deep roots in communitarian family areas). The Spanish anarcho-socialists were dependent on Stalinist aid, the southern Italian socialists were overwhelmed by the central Italian Communist Party machine, and the French Communist Party did not have deep roots in the Parisian Basin where it nonetheless drew electoral support.”
The Basque anarcho-syndicalists would be an interesting test case. It is an independent, autonomous organization. It receives no funding as far as I know than its own funding. It even educates and trains its own employees. So, how did the Mondragon Corporation become so successful without be controlled or funded by any other large political communist organizations or governments?
Important details seem to have been left out of the analysis of Emmanuel Todd or at least left out of this post by Craig Willy.
[…] An additional divide is less geographic, but I’ll add it here amidst these grander divides. The original European people have been swamped by the later immigrations and conquerings. These earlier people are less defined by the nation-state identities. I’ve mentioned the Basque who cross the boundary between Spain and France. More interestingly, the Irish originate from the Basque (by the way, it sounds like that although culturally similar to Celtics the Irish/Basque people aren’t genetically the same as the Celtics). The Irish are a mysterious group when considering genetics and the Black Irish, but there seems to be no absolute conclusions as of yet. Anyway, their unique origins would explain the conflict these two peoples have had with the populations that surround them. These are particularly clannish people who have attempted to maintain local self-governance and ethnic identity in the face of those who wish to impose upon them from the outside (i.e., the great empires of Spain, France and England). These clannish people declared a forceful ‘no’ to assimilation. The Basque republican independence even helped to inspire early American political thinking (see here). […]
[…] Spain: la endogamia en la españa medieval civicness in spain by region […]
[…] https://hbdchick.wordpress.com/2012/09/23/civicness-in-spain-by-region/#comment-26653 […]
As a Galician and man with a fairly engineering/sciencie-oriented education, I find the insinuations in this article everything but plausible. To be clear: I do not exclude the possibility of certain populations in Spain to score, on average, higher in IQ tests than others, but really, man… are you trying to correlate “civicness” to interbreeding to explain differences in interaction of individuals with society across different regions in Spain? Seriously? You have nothing, absolutely nothing to support such thesis that sensible (let alone scientifical, formal) approach could validate. Have you considered how history, social and natural conditions, expressed in thousands of variables dependant on each others, can shape social behaviour? Can you provide me with only one reason to chose the variable of “level of interbreeding” over those thousands of others to explain differences between the level of “civicness” between Catalonians and Galicians, other than a personal desire based on racial preferences?
Let me make your area of interests a bit more complex: after having seen quite a lot of Eastern Europe, I can totally not scientifically state that I see there a less civic but smarter people than in Western Europe.
@have you ever – “Can you provide me with only one reason to chose the variable of ‘level of interbreeding’ over those thousands of others to explain differences between the level of ‘civicness’ between Catalonians and Galicians, other than a personal desire based on racial preferences?”
the question (and my proposed, but by no means confirmed, idea) has nothing to do with race or racial preferences, nor does it have anything to do with interbreeding, but, rather, inbreeding (and outbreeding) — specifically long-term close cousin marriage.
try the start here page for a brief introduction to the theory (which is based on the concept of inclusive fitness, a widely accepted concept in biology).
everybody gets upset when i discuss their own population. don’t take it personally. i’m just as hard on/realistic about about my own (the irish — also “clannish”, also not very good at being civic…also with a comparatively long history of inbreeding).