germany and the migrants

several people have compared the current migrant crisis in europe to the arrival of the barbarians in rome in the fourth century — for example, here’re steve sailer, peter frost, and historian tom holland. their concern — at least that of steve and peter — is the future of the west: will these migrants (help to) bring down modern western civilization just as the goths et al. did to rome? the question is not just an emotional or an irrational one — migration is one of the main driving forces of evolution (along with things like natural selection and genetic drift), since the movement of individuals from one population to another also means the movement of genes. and because all behavioral traits are heritable, the transference of genes via migration ought to be a matter of interest and importance to one and all. (that’s not to say that it should never be allowed, just that people(s) ought to pay it due attention.)

what i haven’t seen though are any comparisons to a more recent mass migratory event, one which also happened to feature germany, a major player in today’s migrant crisis. i suppose that’s because the whole subject is rather sensitive, but that’s no excuse for ignoring it — rather to the contrary! so, here goes…

in the late-1800s/early-1900s, at least a couple of million (i haven’t been able to find a precise number) eastern european jews migrated to and/or through germany. and how well did that work out for everybody?

from Unwelcome Strangers: East European Jews in Imperial Germany [pgs. 11-12]:

“In the last two years of the 1860s, a few thousand Russian Jews crossed into Prussia seeking relief from cholera epidemics and famines that were wreaking havoc in the western part of the Tsarist Empire. Desperately ill and malnourished, the refugees deluged their German coreligionists with pleas for economic assistance and medical attention. The latter responded by launching numerous ad hoc committees that collected funds throughout Germany and then funneled their receipts to Jewish communities along the frontier; these, in turn, provided relief to the needy. In time, the immediate crisis passed. Many of the Russian Jews remained in Prussia or traveled farther west, some as far as the New World. And the ad hoc committees, convinced that their mission had ended, folded their operations….

“Over the next half-century, the momentum of Jewish emigration from Russia steadily increased. During the 1870s perhaps 40,000 to 50,000 Jews migrated westward. After the pogroms of 1881, however, the trickle turned into a flood as tens of thousands abandoned their homes annually…. By the early twentieth century, over 100,000 such refugees emigrated each year, so that by 1914 at least two and a half million Russian Jews had settled in Western countries, including England, France, Canada, Argentina, and principally the United States.

“Concurrently, Jews from the Austro-Hungarian Empire and Rumania also were on the move. In the face of economic boycotts and rising unemployment at the end of the nineteenth century, Jews emigrated from the Polish sectors of the Hapsburg Empire. Rumanian Jews, too, made their way west after their country denied them citizenship and introduced blatantly anti-Jewish policies….”

(yes, eastern europeans are, on average, more xenophobic than most western european populations. and, judging by the above, they apparently have been for some time).

“…Between 1870 and the outbreak of World War I, over 400,000 Jews left their homes in the Galician, Bohemian, Moravian, Hungarian, and Rumanian lands to seek a new future in Western countries, while and even larger number migrated *within* the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

“Whereas anti-Semitism and impoverization provided the push to drive Jews *from* Eastern Europe, emigrants were also drawn *to* Western lands. They were lured by the promise of eonomic opportunity in the more industrialized West and the knowledge that their fellow Jews in England, France, Germany, and the New World countries enjoyed comparatively greater freedom and prosperity. The promise of toleration and opportunity, therefore, also attracted adventuresome Jews to seek their fortunes in new environments.

funnily enough, during at least some of this period, germany behaved more like macedonia or serbia today, shuffling the migrants onwards to the next country (making a ton of cash in the meantime, sounds like). ‘course the eastern european jews wanted to just migrate through germany, kind-of like the middle eastern/north african/african migrants of today don’t want to stay in macedonia or serbia or hungary [pgs. 13-14]:

“Germany had a vested economic interest in allowing Jewish refugees into the Reich. For Germany — and especially its shipping companies — hoped to benefit from the lucrative business of transporting Eastern Jews to England and America via the ports of Hamburg and Bremen. The sheer number of Jewish transmigrants embarking from German ports was staggering, exceeding 700,000 during the peak years between 1905 and 1914….

“The extent of German interest in encouraging Jewish transmigrant traffic is illustrated by some of the policies pursued by governments and shipping firms. For example, according to Prussian decrees in force between the 1890s and the outbreak of World War I, no Russian transmigrant was officially allowed into Germany without a proper pass, a ticket for passage out of the country, plus an additional sum of money. (Each person over ten years of age had to posses 400 mark, and children needed 100 mark.) Significantly, individuals holding tickets on German ships were exempted from this rule and permitted into the Reich even if they possessed less money. Perhaps the most revealing episode in the campaign to develop the transmigrant traffic occurred in 1893 when the eastern-most states of the Reich sealed their borders in response to cholera epidemics in Eastern Europe. Led by the Hamburg America Line, German shipping companies successfully lobbied for a reversal of this policy, arguing that Jewish transmigrants posed no health risk to the German populace. To further allay fears, shipping firms expended significant sums of money to erect special transport centers in key German cities and vast barrack areas in port cities; such facilities were designed to isolate Jewish travelers from the German populace and thereby eliminate objections to the temporary presence of these Jews on German soil.”

unfortunately, even though most of them didn’t even stay very long in germany, the ostjuden left a bad impression on the minds of germans. i couldn’t even tell you if any of the stereotypes were true or not, and if true by how much — and i really don’t want to get into a discussion about it here and now (although i strongly suspect that eastern european jews are, on average, more clannish than german jews, so there’s possibly that) — but even german jews at the time panicked a bit over the behaviors of their eastern cousins. from Brothers and Strangers: The East European Jew in German and German Jewish Consciousness, 1800-1923 [pgs. 33, 57]:

“German Jews undertook massive charitable work on behalf of the persecuted East European Jews at the same time that they sought the most efficacious means to prevent their mass settlement in Germany….

“Ultimately the difference between German Jews and Ostjuden, both in and out of Germany, was regarded as cultural in nature. Liberal German Jews viewed Eastern Jewish culture as ‘ghetto’ culture which by definition was backward and underdeveloped. The German historical experience had made it abundantly clear that Jewish modernization was conditional upon deghettoization, and this in turn left no room for *Kulturjuden* along the lines still maintained in Eastern Europe.

“This point of view was perfectly understandable. German Jews felt like Germans and their culture *was* German culture. By the beginning of the twentieth century they possessed almost nothing akin to the ‘Jewish’ culture that characterized life in the ghettos of Eastern Europe. The distance they felt, the dissociation from Ostjuden was, then, predicated upon both an objective and subjective reality.”

eastern european jews had a very different (bio-)culture to german jews and gentiles, one that, unfortunately, did not sit well with too many members of the mainstream culture. (the timing was bad, too. more on that below.) am i blaming jews for the holocaust? no. but i am warning — again — that in order to prevent future genocides, we need to understand previous ones, and that includes examining them with a biological/evolutionary eye. as i said previously:

“humans don’t *really* fight and kill neighboring populations or discriminate against subgroups within their nations — not to mention enslave one another — for any of the goofy ideological, religious, or ‘moral’ excuses that they give. those are mostly just after the fact rationalizations that they’ve come up with (no, really — the human brain is not to be trusted!). like other creatures, humans very often try to eliminate or dominate other groups *because they are in competition with them for resources* [pdf] — or, at least, *feel* that they are anyway, whatever the reality on the ground may be.”

bill hamilton pointed to the fourfold increase in the number of ashkenazi jews in eastern europe over the course of just the nineteenth century as a possible contributing factor to the holocaust. this would’ve represent an enormous change in the competition for resources between jews and gentiles in eastern europe. couple that already existing situation to the mass migration of a (bio-)culturally different population into/through germany at the turn of the century, and THEN the appalling economic conditions in germany after wwi and the stock market collapse — further feuling the competition for resources — and you have a recipe for an absolutely horrific biological disaster.

no, i’m not saying that such a scenario is guaranteed to happen again in the west with our new migrants. if there’s enough manna from heaven to go ’round, people probably won’t take it out on their neighbors. (there’s been no genocide of jews in the u.s. where times have generally been pretty good. always.) but i am saying that the powers that be ought to be MUCH more careful in shuffling peoples around willy-nilly. they’re playing a very dangerous game.

see also: us and them

previously: historic mating patterns of ashkenazi jews and gene-o-cide and human biodiversity, racism, eugenics, and genocide

(note: comments do not require an email. eastern european jewish immigrants on an american liner, 1906.)

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34 Comments

  1. Germany was NEVER welcoming to the Jews, they had aways justv been there as isolated outsiders. It was Napoleon’s military conquest that forced Germany to emancipate the Jews, an act that by the mid 1800s destabilized the parliamentary government and resulted in a rightwing crackdown on “Jewish liberals” infiltrating the government and institutions. As a result of renewed persecution, many liberal Germans and Jews fled to the USA, leaving Germany with a gene pool of rightwing conservatives that gripped the nation for a century.
    Also, it was much harder to immigrate into America than across poorly organized European borders. You had to pass a battery of inspections to determine your health, language abilities and economic status. You could be quarantined if you were diseased or unhealthy. The immigration process was easier for Jews since they typically were literate, spoke several languages and shared housing and money. Poor immigrants who were ethnically eastern European or Irish did not have it so easy.
    Once the Jews were in the USA there were many many “Mutual societies” available to to join for those from a common place of origin. A lost piece of American history is the staggering number of Jewish charities and labor unions that were simply there to help newly arrived Jews find employment and assimilate into American life. No other ethnic group had anything like that level of support.
    That support, by the way, was despised by Rabbis who saw American pluralism as ruining Jewish isolation. The Jews had remained a isolated gene pool for thousnads of years thanks to endless persecution. Suddenly America came along and ruined that.
    I honestly don’t think you can make an accurate comparison between the current wave of European immigrants and the Jewish immigrations. Certainly there are many many establshed immigrants from Turkey and the middle east who could assist their countrymen with resources and support. But they’re not doing it. Sadly, it is a replay of the Palestinian tragedy, where they would rather see their countrymen living in poverty stricken refugee camps than assist them in becoming good citizens.

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  2. “It was Napoleon’s military conquest that forced Germany to emancipate the Jews”: there was no Germany in Napoleon’s time, save in the geographical sense. Your grasp of history seems to be slight.

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  3. I don’t know why there is all this anxiety. It only took 8 or 9 hundred years for things to get back up to speed after the barbarian refugee crisis was solved.

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  4. I thought you were going to talk about the Drang Nach Osten for a moment there.

    Re: Ostjuden in Germany
    I don’t think the presence of hordes of Eastern European Jewish hicks would have been sufficient to trigger a Holocaust. My layman’s impression of Nazi propaganda is that it was focused just as much or more on assimilated German Jewish intellectualism. Kind of a rare confluence there, a single ethnic group that managed for a time to occupy both the top and the bottom in the “top and bottom against the middle” framework. Not a good place to be.

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  5. It’s quite itneresting that just recently there was a debate in Polish newspaper “Rzeczpospolita” sparked by one guy arguing more or less the same – that mass immigration will be beginning of the rise of xenophobia, far right and consequently, very nasty outcomes in the future. A lot of namecalling followed.

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  6. Apparently Erdogan strongarmed Merkel into giving him some concessions in Turkey, in exchange for controlling the flow of migrants. The migrants are definitely being used as a weapon by Turkey against the EU (not that I’m complaining, bioweapons are the best weapons muahahaha).

    Btw check out Erdo’s taste in deco: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRm64fZWEAAf5FQ.jpg

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  7. Whatever other opinions people may have there’s one simple fact applies to all of them.

    If you have mass immigration without building the housing *first* then increased housing costs will reduce discretionary spending and gradually suck the life out of the economy.

    Big employers will benefit from the reduced labor costs for a while but eventually they will go under as well.

    Fall of Rome 2.0 – just a question now of what can be salvaged.

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  8. It is human nature to flee an area where survival prospects are very low, and attempt to relocate to an area where safety and resources are more plentiful. This behavior is an ancient and fundamental imperative of all homo sapiens. This contemporary migration is toward Western Europe because it is the nearest and most accessible safe haven. And this process will continue until either the source driver is removed or resource hardship arises in the destination areas. Who among us would behave differently if faced with existential distress?

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  9. “but i am saying that the powers that be ought to be MUCH more careful in shuffling peoples around willy-nilly. they’re playing a very dangerous game.”

    Perhaps they don’t know this. If there was just some way that we could let them know maybe then they would consider all of the consequences and make better decisions.

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  10. hbdchick

    “btw, two important articles i tweeted today (icymi):”

    ty, will read

    (I’m a bit slow so i haven’t evolved to twitter yet :) )

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  11. Again the jewish narrative about jewish story

    ”anti-semitic” ones are irrational and/or envy about ”jewish sucess” (i.e, exploitation of natives)

    ‘they” never was any guilty, they are misunderstood…

    People don’t understand the high functioning and gifted psychopaths because they are extremely talented for work inside cognitive human biases or potential weakness.

    I think, an hour, some of them will lose patience with the goy and will get close to them and hit them on the head saying

    ” You guys are so dumb that they can not realize ** ”

    ” heeeei … hello … I’m here … you are not realizing ** ”

    The fact that most modern destroyers of ” civilization ” being white goys is no causal evidence as the massive participation / Jewish influence on the hierarchically more important spheres. And the reasons are simple, they want to take power and make the world a great Brazil. Right now the Brazilian people are still thinking how act together to take power from the hands of oligarchical collectivists, which as always, are incompetent.

    Most Jews are accessary with what your elite are doing, first by pure convenience, but also because ordinary people who are not part of large groups, have little or no power. Still, a lot of middle-class Jews are putting their children into Harvard. They act like many Indian and Chinese.

    Plus, white Americans has been accessary with their governments by

    -apathy
    -ignorancia
    -lack of empathy towards those who the US government has inflicted pain and suffering

    It’s always like that.

    Yesterday I was thinking, what is the difference between the Amerindian religious beliefs, which is likely to have been created about 10,000 years ago (and likely to be even older) with all religions and modern ideologies ***

    NONE

    I refuse to believe that ” we have evolved ” … local adaptations are a way to adapt, but to evolve it is necessary to climb some steps further.

    In mental terms the human being stopped in time since antiquity.

    There was an increase of intelligent cognitively, but intellectual intelligence which is extremely important, it is still a small minority and therefore will continue to be ruled by psychopaths or useful idiots from wealthy families.

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  12. @ iffen
    The Chick: “but i am saying that the powers that be … playing a very dangerous game.”

    You: “Perhaps they don’t know this. If there was just some way that we could let them know maybe then they would consider all of the consequences and make better decisions.”

    I am hoping this is a sally of wit in a context where some humor would be much appreciated. But the suggestion is of course valid. In fact a couple of weeks ago I wrote the Swedish equivalent of a public health department, pointing out in case i had not told them before that given the average age of first marriage for Swedish women (a surrogate for trying to have babies, half of Swedish births are not to married couples) as of 2005, the last year I have good stats on, the oldest woman trying to start have babies, the youngest Swedish woman trying to start having babies and the age of 38 would all come together with a sickening splat in about 2023. They are marrying older and older, and no country seems ever to have turned that around while the birth rate was below replacement. My email was blocked with the explanatory note, “abuse.” It wasn’t read because I’m on some list. So I have, not for the first time, been gagged. I think it’s pretty clear that the “powers that be” in that country, and I daresay every other rich country, are playing ostrich.

    Maybe Santoculto’s hint is right. Germany’s doom may be far worse than it was the last time. The proper parallel may be the Natives of this continent.

    Sweden’s birth rate fell below replacement and age at marriage started upward from 29 in 1993; Germany’s birth rate fell below replacement and age at marriage started upward from 23 in 1970. The rise for Sweden is abut three years older each 3 calendar years. Germany is going up faster, the rise in age at marriage rising at about a year older each 2.5 calendar years. Is it just me, or does it look like we will all reach the Finish line at about the same time? What’s going to happen when suddenly there are no more European babies, well almost no more? Do you think we’re going to get to live on reservations or will they just give us blankets infected with smallpox? (We’re all vulnerable, you know. Nobody has been vaccinated in many years and the protection only lasts five.) Don’t worry. Be happy.

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  13. @L. Herbert

    “some humor would be much appreciated”

    Yes, gallows humor.

    “pointing out in case i had not told them before”

    Maybe it is not “what” you said that got you listed , but the number of times that you have said something. They might have some sort of arbitrary limit as to the number of comments that one person is allowed and after that they label it abuse.

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  14. ”Yes, I’d say your video just about sums it up”

    ;)

    Linton,

    What was my hint that you’re talking about *

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  15. Sorry Hbd Chick, just other question and leave you in the saint peace of God,

    Perhaps, rather than the theory that the Jews select for increased intelligence, they just too early have provided favorable social environment where everyone in the group could have children, many children, and the result was the accumulation of genetic diseases and some rare intellectual advantages as well is happening with western populations, eugenics in parallel with dysgenics.

    Ashkenazi relaxed selection for the fittest too soon, a partially alternative theory those that have been proposed.

    A very good social/economic environment, and without cultural conscience against genetic problems can become prone to accumulate mutations.

    And an explanation for the non-linear relationship between intelligence and longevity. Bigger brains and better neurological networks increase survival of the brain, slow maturation also seems to relate logically with longer life. But that does not necessarily mean worse health in human populations with ‘lower’ intelligence, but less need to live longer if brain death is death itself.

    just speculations of course.

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  16. @gnarlodious – “I honestly don’t think you can make an accurate comparison between the current wave of European immigrants and the Jewish immigrations.”

    i wasn’t at all trying to make a comparison between the eastern european jewish migrants of the 19th/20th centuries and the migrants to europe today. different populations entirely (although both are more clannish than modern northwest europeans, imho — however, middle easterners/north africans are WAY more clannish than east european jews or other east europeans, afaict).

    the purpose of my post was just to bring into the discussions re. the current migrant crisis the point that *sometimes* the introduction of large numbers of one population into (or even just through) another population can lead to gruesome results. don’t want to see a repeat of anything like that. =/

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  17. @ihtg – “My layman’s impression of Nazi propaganda is that it was focused just as much or more on assimilated German Jewish intellectualism.”

    well, if aschheim is to be believed, german concern about the presence of jews in their society at the turn of the twentieth century — and more outright anti-semitism — had been mostly focused on the ostjuden until after wwi (or during wwi). it was at this point that native german jews got swept up in a more general anti-semitism.

    if that’s right (and if i’m understanding him right — my knowledge of the subject is very superficial), then you really have to wonder if the nazi anti-semitism towards german jews would’ve been so strong if it weren’t for the preceding half-a-century plus of mass migration of eastern european jews into/thru germany. maybe it still would’ve happened since german jews had been successful in business and banking, etc., etc., and that resentment still would’ve been there. don’t know. -?- but i have the impression that many of the anti-semitic jewish stereotypes — that jews are scheming, conniving, thieving, etc. — might’ve been a view picked up from the experiences with eastern european jews in germany who were more involved in black markets and other crime, etc. (on average, obv. — just like most other groups from eastern europe.)

    like you said, though — at the top and the bottom — not good places to be (only…or mostly).

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  18. @tom – “It is human nature to flee an area where survival prospects are very low, and attempt to relocate to an area where safety and resources are more plentiful…. Who among us would behave differently if faced with existential distress?”

    absolutely! can’t blame the migrants.

    @jayman – “Yes. That’s important for commenters on this matter to keep in mind.”

    agreed!

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  19. btw…

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  20. @TomA
    “Who among us would behave differently if faced with existential distress?”
    @hbd chick
    “absolutely! can’t blame the migrants.”

    We cannot run the world or our own lives as if we were that person or persons. We are our own sentient beings, with our own survival and well being needs. This is standard liberal moral dogma – “suppose you were that person”. I feel that dogma is preposterous. As to the subject of blame, I also don’t blame wolves for their behavior, but I feel I must protect myself from them. After all we are hominids living in a world of scarcity – conflict is inevitable.

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  21. @ Name Withheld

    I’m not advocating that Europe open its borders and welcome all comers from the Mideast. Only that this type of migratory behavior is natural and part of our universal heritage. Hence it will continue until the fundamental drivers change (either on the source end or the destination end).

    One could argue that the USA benefited greatly from successive waves of immigration during the 19th and 20th century, but that is no guarantee that the present migration wave will be beneficial to Western Europe. Affluence in First World countries is manifest as a declining birth rate and demography is destiny. Either the high birthrate cohort assimilates or it dominates. We’ll know how it ends in about 25 years.

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  22. @Name Withheld:

    “We cannot run the world or our own lives as if we were that person or persons. We are our own sentient beings, with our own survival and well being needs..”

    That’s NOT what Tom was saying.

    Why is it that when someone points out something understanding of the migrants motivation, inevitably SOMEONE says as you do?

    It’s very important to understand the motivations of the migrants if one hopes to address the issue.

    But I think the deeper matter here, something that becomes clear when most people talk about this: it is important to be treat the migrants as human beings even though we also need to stem the flow of them into the West. Most of the more rabid voices clearly don’t have any such concern.

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    1. @Jayman “It’s very important to understand the motivations of the migrants if one hopes to address the issue.” Hear, hear! Those are words of wisdom. Absolutely we must understand them and address their needs. However, we also need to try not to dehumanize the people who are being made most unhappy by the immigration. They are expressing legitimate needs. You are the first I have seen say or imply this. Yes, understand them, help them AND stem the flow. Certainly that must be possible.

      The other day I read that Amazon has a tablet for less than fifty dollars. I was thunderstruck. That means it’s a different world. Time was, if you wanted to help the poorest of the poor you’d not have much luck just giving cash to their leaders and asking them sweetly to pass it out. They’d keep it. But now passing it out would be dirt cheap. Just set up fund. No, not even that. Just set up a plan such that everybody on earth gets a portion of a trillion virtual dollars each year. Stand by to buy back the credits. So everybody has his tablet or phone or whatever that takes his picture, a picture of the surroundings, a GPS location and a retinal scan. Then credit him his share on a weekly basis. It would be cheaper to give the money to everybody than try to decide who was really in need. He can turn the money in for cash if he likes. Or he can pass it on to anybody else’s account who is in the system and had been scanned. Those transactions are monitored. It should be very crime unfriendly. Say ISIS comes into a town and scans everybody. You know who has all the money and every time he makes a transaction you know exactly where he is.
      It comes out to something like five bucks per person per week. You know they’re going to spend it. Eventually much will come back and by US products. But since you can always change it to dollars, you never change it to dollars. You just go on a digital economy. In fact, a digital dollar may be worth more than a traditional one.

      So for the price of a bank bailout each year you’ve taken a big hunk out of world poverty.

      Just an idea.

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  23. People do not flee their homeland and heritage easily or inadvertently, but only when the journey is viewed as less dangerous than remaining in harm’s way. And they bring their fear and apprehension with them upon arriving in the new land because everything is different or unknown. They also typically arrive under hostile conditions because they are viewed as dangerous interlopers. And all of this is human nature (on both sides).

    And human nature will not evaporate simply because it is objectionable.

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  24. I’ve talked about immigration to Merthyr Tydfil, the world’s oldest industrial town, elsewhere on this site. There hasn’t been a lot of mixing in Merthyr. Immigrants from Ireland, England, Spain, Italy, Russia (Jews) are all still distinct from the Welsh 200 years later. Prejudice, language, religion, occupation, social class and subsequent emigration have all played their part in maintaining separation. It isn’t Alabama in 1870 but there are definite divides, probably exaggerated in periods of economic stress and diminished during prosperity. I suspect that if you dig deep enough you will find it so in most industrial towns. Serious interbreeding takes time. A lot of time. The Swedes aren’t going to become dark haired Arabs overnight.

    Reply

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