42 Comments

  1. I’m a bit surprised. When you described your background as “tribal” and Catholic, I figured it was something REALLY tribal, so I guessed Croat. You have, after all, ranked the Irish as ~relatively~ high on the outbreeding scale compared to most ethnicities, in the past.

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  2. just added a short edit to the post — something i meant to include but forgot to (typical!):

    “i meant to mention that, thankfully, my paternal and maternal families are from different regions of the country, so…whew!…that might’ve saved me from some fairly close inbreeding there. (~_^)”

    (^_^)

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  3. @ihtg – “I’m a bit surprised. When you described your background as ‘tribal’ and Catholic, I figured it was something REALLY tribal, so I guessed Croat. You have, after all, ranked the Irish as ~relatively~ high on the outbreeding scale compared to most ethnicities, in the past.”

    sorry. guess i was too coy. (*^_^*)

    last year i ranked the irish as being 3-4 on my very subjective clannishness (i.e. how much inbreeding) scale of 1-10. my guess is they’re (we’re) prolly more like a 4.

    the irish started outbreeding really late, afaict. like after the 1400s. that’s just so much later than most of the core europeans. but better than the arabs! and we’ve done even better than the southern italians who had high cousin marriage rates into the 1960s! the irish don’t have that. at *some* point, we started to take the cousin marriage bans seriously. still haven’t worked out when exactly that was, though. Further Research is RequiredTM!

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  4. H13a1a … to me the history reads as if this haplogroup was carried by the earlier expansion of the EEF (early european farmers) from the ME, hence the prevalence in Sardinia and so on, but was by happenstance absent from the later Yamna or Indo-European expansion that swept across much of Europe. In which case you could plausibly claim direct female line descent from some of the first human settlers of Ireland, and perhaps be one of the few remaining women for whom that’s true. Didn’t the Irish have some matrilineal dynasties at some point?

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  5. From your statement that your ancestry was from one of the PIIGS countries, and from earlier linking to Revolución Naturalista, I guessed Hispanic.

    damnit

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  6. Are you doing what is necessary to pass those genes onto the next generation. You don’t want to contribute to the dysgenic effect of smart women refusing the procreate. ;)

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  7. Note the Scandis. My sister did 23andme too and they turned up for her too (ancestors from northern Scotland). It was those wretched Vikings. Must left their genetic traces all over the coastal areas of Northern Europe.

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  8. Fàilte. I thought that you might be of Irish origin. Your blog posts have been peppered with a few clues here and there. That big series of posts on Irish mating patterns which you did. A references to being drunk in a discotheque somewhere in Ireland in your younger days. And something you wrote on Twitter a few days ago was an even bigger clue! And an even bigger clue somewhere else.

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  9. I guessed something else liminal, maybe Portuguese.
    I’m half McBride myself, a sept of the MacDonalds, Lords of the Isles. Your Scottish ancestry might well date from the Lordship of the Isles, well before the Plantation. Western Scotland and Northern Ireland have very deep roots.

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  10. Hell, I thought you were Polish!

    A question for Jayman re your map of inbreeding: Where would the Ashkenazi Jews living in Eastern Europe have rated on that scale in the 19th and early 20th centuries? Any idea?

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  11. What’s difference between ”endogamic purity” and ”racial purity”??

    Irish people have higher percentage of red haired heads like some tribes in Central Asia.

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  12. There was loads of coming and going between Scotland and Ireland well before Cromwell. The old kingdom of Dalriada spanned both sides of the North Channel.

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  13. @anonymous – “Now then, are you descended from the Cruithne, or the Gaels, or both?”

    the leprechauns. definitely the leprechauns, given my stature. or lack of it. (*^_^*)

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  14. @luke – “A question for Jayman re your map of inbreeding: Where would the Ashkenazi Jews living in Eastern Europe have rated on that scale in the 19th and early 20th centuries? Any idea?”

    i’ll give that a shot!

    i have an idea, based on some preliminary reading on the historic mating patterns of ashkenazi jews (but Further Research is RequiredTM), that there’s actually been quite a difference in cousin marriage rates between western european (say german) jews and eastern european (russian) jews.

    my favorite historian of medieval europe, michael mitterauer, mentioned in Why Europe? that jews in europe became concerned about cousin marriage during the middle ages following the catholic church’s lead. fast forward to the 1700s-1800s and, afaict, western european ashkenazi jews had very low cousin marriage rates — in the range of 4 to 8% — usually around double that of the surrounding gentile population, but still very low compared to many parts of the world (or siciliy!). on the other hand, i keep reading about how common cousin marriage was among eastern european ashkenazi jews, although i haven’t been able to find any actual rates/data yet. (argh.) and, of course, some subgroups of eastern european jews have a tradition of uncle-niece marriage, which is very close.

    i think that jews in europe — ashkenazi jews and sephardic jews — copied the mating patterns of the broader populations wherever they were — when it comes to cousin marriage, i mean. i think western ashkenazis are going to prove to be quite outbred, eastern ashkenazis and sephardic jews not so much.

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  15. “There was loads of coming and going between Scotland and Ireland well before Cromwell. The old kingdom of Dalriada spanned both sides of the North Channel.” And plenty before that too. It’s all one rather small archipelago.

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  16. @dearieme – “‘hebridies’: you must have gay marriage in mind.”

    oh, oops! got carried away with my iiiiiiiiiiis there! (*^_^*)

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  17. @boris – “In which case you could plausibly claim direct female line descent from some of the first human settlers of Ireland, and perhaps be one of the few remaining women for whom that’s true.”

    ooo, that’s a neat thought! (^_^) after googling it, i did find another irish chick online with the same mtdna, so there are some of us out there. also, quite a few of my cousins (both male and female) ought to have this H13 mtdna as well (all of the descendents of my maternal grandmother — and the descendents of her sisters, too!) — and the kids of my female cousins. (^_^)

    @boris – “Didn’t the Irish have some matrilineal dynasties at some point?”

    i don’t know. -?-

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  18. @sansfoy – “Are you doing what is necessary to pass those genes onto the next generation.”

    let me put it this way: i’m doing my d*rndest to promote my inclusive fitness. (~_^)

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  19. @anatoly – “I on the other hand am about as mixed as one can be without being properly biracial. ;)”

    oh, wow! you ARE a mix! cool! (^_^) (i wonder what the “unassigned” bits are…very mysterious!)

    @anatoly – “Dagestan, huh? indeed. I am a quarter Lak. Maybe we are relatives!”

    my cousin! (^_^) i admit that i just had to look up lak. neat! 180,000 though? that’s not so good. =/

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  20. @frau katze – “Note the Scandis. My sister did 23andme too and they turned up for her too (ancestors from northern Scotland).”

    oh, yeah. northern scotland? the whole lot of ye are vikings up there! (~_^)

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  21. @chris – “Fàilte.”

    go raibh maith agat! (^_^) (that’s all i know! don’t ask me to say anything else in irish. =P oh, i know some swear words, of course….)

    @chris – “That big series of posts on Irish mating patterns which you did.”

    i honestly meant those as a lead in to my series of posts on the history of scottish mating patterns…which never happened. (*^_^*) next year! (maybe. no guarantees. (~_^) )

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  22. @simon – “Your Scottish ancestry might well date from the Lordship of the Isles, well before the Plantation. Western Scotland and Northern Ireland have very deep roots.”

    @gordo – “There was loads of coming and going between Scotland and Ireland well before Cromwell. The old kingdom of Dalriada spanned both sides of the North Channel.”

    @dearieme – “And plenty before that too. It’s all one rather small archipelago.”

    yeah, sure. the thing i’m trying to explain to myself is how the family wound up in connacht. and we were already there by the 1850s (griffith’s valuation). maybe the ancestors were shuffled over there by ollie & co. -?-

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  23. “H13a1a”

    One of my odd theories is some of that first farmer dna had adaptations to increase the amount of iodine in breast milk (to compensate for less fish / meat). Is the part of your family whose mother’s descended from that grandma (or from her mother / grandma) smarter than the rest?

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  24. @grey – “Is the part of your family whose mother’s descended from that grandma (or from her mother / grandma) smarter than the rest?”

    no, not really. if anything, that’s the not-so-bright side of the family. (*^_^*) (the clever clogs are the ones from the scottish side of the family…but don’t tell them i said that. it’ll only inflate their egos even more! =P )

    although my grandmother herself actually ran her own shop (a small grocery shop), so she obviously wasn’t so slow. not sure about her mother (my great grandmother) and her brothers and sister, etc. something to find out over christmas, maybe!

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  25. Looks a lot like mine except I’m 96.1% British and Irish, 3.3% Broadly North Euro and strangely enough 0.2% Iberian and 0.2% Broadly South Euro, and finally 0.2% Broadly Euro.

    Again all on Speculative.

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  26. Fascinating. As a supposedly inbred/homogeneous French Canadian I naively expected similar looking results with the focus on France and instead got a crazy-quilt breakdown. 99% European but spread out all over north/south and east to west. JayMan’s map helps explain that I guess (although it may not reflect 400 yrs ago when my French ancestors left europe). The highest percentage is British/Irish at nearly 25%. French-German was only 19% and 3% Scandinavian. I am about 30% Southern European with some eastern europe, near east, southwest asia etc etc. One of my x-chromosomes is solidly southern European and the other is solidly Northern European (in both speculative and conservative views) which seems weird (I tested my parents relatedness with the 23andme results and they are equivalent to 5th cousins). I thought I would have more Native American though apparently not (.1%), but when scrolling through the cousin matches there were quite a few self-described as NAs who are supposedly 2nd and 3rd cousin. Well at least I feel a lot less boring and homogeneous now;)

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  27. Also forgot to add, although the GEDmatch program I used for my parents relatedness, or my autosomal homozygosity, suggests any segment longer than 10 cM probably means MRCA is within a few generations and I have one 17.4cM segment, I know my genealogy fairly well and I definitely have sixteen GGparents so it must go back further, at least 5 or 6 generations (to what was in fact a period of ‘inbreeding’ documented by increased requests for church dispensations because of isolation and limited choices) which supports the homogeneous population idea. So we are both homogeneous and diverse. I really want to check out other 100% Quebecois and see what their breakdowns are. It could be an interesting window into the ethnic composition of French people then (colonists came from all over France) that could be compared to today.

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  28. lilibetii
    My mtDNA is H13a1a – It is the mtDNA of my great grandmother, Julia Ann Sullivan, born in Cork, Ireland 1831.
    Her father is Con Sullivan. That is the sum of what we know about her and we know that from her marriage certificate when she married George Johnson in Kent, England. I have just about given up finding any more about her especially give the number of Julia Sullivans in Cork. I have very much enjoed reading your writings and the comments of the other contributors.

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  29. @elizabeth – “My mtDNA is H13a1a – It is the mtDNA of my great grandmother, Julia Ann Sullivan, born in Cork, Ireland 1831.”

    oh, neat! (^_^) i’m not alone! or, rather, me and maternal relatives are not alone. (~_^)

    the maternal side of my family comes from the other end of the country — donegal — so i guess the H13a1a haplogroup is scattered around the country. (at the fringes? n=2 is not a big enough sample!)

    @elizabeth – “I have very much enjoed reading your writings and the comments of the other contributors.”

    thanks very much for saying so. (^_^) and, yes, my commenters are awesome! must give ’em a raise. or a bonus next christmas. (~_^)

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  30. I’m a little disappointed as I had hoped that you might be from Cork. I really do wish some ladies from Cork with our mtDNA would take the test. It’s the same with our YDNA. I had my nephew Bill Sloane take the test and it turns out he is the only SLOANE of our clan that took the test. No one said it was going to be easy!

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