guilty!

hallelujah!:

“Oxford paedophile ring found guilty of grooming vulnerable underage girls for sexual exploitation”

“- Fighting broke out in the dock as two other defendants were cleared
– Seven men found guilty of catalogue of offences involving underage girl
– Verdicts delivered at Old Bailey at the end of a five month trial
– The seven men have been remanded in custody for sentencing next month
– Girls were so young ‘they had just stopped believing in the Easter bunny when they were corrupted’
Police identified as many as 22 girls who were ‘groomed, corrupted, brainwashed and abused and then sold for sex and worse’
– Two of the three care homes where victims of the Oxford sex ring lived have been closed down but only one member of staff was sacked

“Police and social workers apologised today for not protecting vulnerable schoolgirls who were sexually abused and exploited by a paedophile ring….”

bit late.

“The admissions of failure which saw the girls being drugged and raped when they were supposed to be in the care of the authorities came as seven men were found guilty of a catalogue of offences including rape, trafficking and organising prostitution over eight years involving girls as young as 11 in the Oxford area.

“In dramatic scenes, fighting broke out in the dock at the Old Bailey as two other defendants were cleared.

“Two sets of brothers, Akhtar Dogar, 32, and Anjum Dogar, 31, and Mohammed Karrar, 38, and Bassam Karrar, 33, were convicted along with Kamar Jamil, 27, Assad Hussain, 32, and Zeeshan Ahmed, 27….”

i wonder if there are any cousins in there, too?

“The girls targeted by the Oxford sex ring were so young ‘they had just stopped believing in the Easter bunny’ when they were ‘corrupted entirely’ by the extreme abuse, the retired lead detective said.

“He said that the seven predators who ran the organised child sex ring ‘identified the most vulnerable girls in our society and corrupted them entirely’.

“Simon Morton, who was then an acting Detective Chief Inspector, said he identified as many as 22 girls who were ‘groomed, corrupted, brainwashed and abused and then sold for sex and worse’ by the gang for ‘the best part of a decade.’

“However, the girls suffered from ‘Stockholm Syndrome’, gaining a bizarre trust in their captors, until his investigation was able to win them over and allow the girls to break their silence….

“The trial followed the jailing last year of Asian men in Rochdale for abusing vulnerable girls, another case where chances to stop the gang were missed….

“Police have arrested a further nine men from the Oxford area under Operation Bullfinch….”

more details from the oxford mail and the rape jihad.

and, jesus h. christ, the bbc’s got a lot of f—ing nerve!!: “Oxford child rape trial: Why was it not stopped sooner?

previously: operation bullfinch

(note: comments do not require an email.)

61 Comments

  1. @scottish girl – “This upsets me so much.”

    i know. =( it’s just awful.

    and not only is it awful, unlike, say, that monster in ohio, this grooming business by muslim gangs in the u.k. is a PATTERN. =/

    Reply

  2. And ‘the powers that be’ response to this…*puke* I actually live two fours above a kebab shop in a tenement. Knowing that vulnerable girls have been groomed from such places gives me the creeps. What I hate most of all is media and the false impressions they give about Muslims and their sexual hang ups. Rarely do they mention the rates of cousin marriages among Pakistanis and the rare times they do, its in defensive of why they blow off steam with white girls! :/

    Reply

  3. @scottish girl – “What I hate most of all is media and the false impressions they give about Muslims and their sexual hang ups.”

    exactly! that’s why i was so annoyed @the bbc in the post. i mean their article is titled:

    Oxford child rape trial: Why was it not stopped sooner?

    uh … because hardly anybody knows about all this because YOU’RE (the bbc) not reporting about it?!

    ugh. =/

    Reply

  4. The BBC did report this lately – BBC Panorama Secrets of Britain’s Sharia Councils –
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmeA0jG7OFE. Just as the audience was deducing from some of the Islamic Scholar comments that if Muslims treat their own women badly things might be even worse for infidel women the BBC clears up your misconceptions by saying these problems are that of bureaucracy!!! So I’m really not surprised at their feigned ignorance.

    Reply

  5. @melykin – “…then drop them out of an airplane over Mecca.”

    heh! sorry. i have to admit that that bit made me LOL (’cause i know you’re a nice person and don’t mean that literally). the imagery was good though!

    Reply

  6. this is another case that was in the news this past friday — i mean, wtf is going on?!:

    Seven men who ran child prostitution ring whose victims were as young as 13 are jailed for up to 18 years each

    – ‘Operation Chalice’ inquiry into child prostitution in Shropshire closed today
    – Police operation saw seven Telford men jailed from 30 months to 18 years
    – The men had been grooming and prostituting girls aged 13 to 16
    – Longest sentences given to brothers who sold teens to curry house workers

    A gang of Asian men who groomed vulnerable white girls for sex has been jailed for more than 50 years.

    Police say up to 100 girls could have fallen victim to the gang led by brothers Ahdel Ali, 25, and Mubarek Ali, 29, of Wellington, Shropshire….

    Reply

  7. “The girl told officers she was regularly having sex with older men but when they tried to video her statement, she said she had never been abused and the case stalled.”

    In the UK, an underage girl or boy cannot give consent even if s/he wants to.
    If the police saw the men and saw the evidence of sex, they didn’t need the girl’s video. They could have taken swabs. The police/Crown then prosecute the men, in the same way that the Crown prosecutes people who drop litter.

    I think some serious professional malpractice has been covered up and I really hope that some group or other gets to the bottom of it and gets all the senior people who ignored the evidence sacked.

    On Newsnight tonight the following points of view were aired:

    -The police chief who finally tackled the problem
    ‘we need a completely new way of detecting and dealing with these crimes, our previous methods were inadequate’

    -Woman who chaired a national report on child abuse prompted by these crimes
    ‘child abuse happens in all ethnic groups it’s not helpful to differentiate’

    -Woman who heads Oxford Something Service
    ‘it was very difficult to prosecute, we’ve learned a huge amount and we’re deeply sorry’

    -Muslim community elder
    ‘the crimes had to be secret because we have something called ‘shame’ in the Muslim community’

    -Muslim community member
    ‘we shouldn’t focus on a community that is only 2% of the population’

    -Muslim political campaigner
    ‘there is a problem in the Pakistani community but it should not be discussed in public’

    -Muslim campaigner
    ‘it is a broader problem of masculine identity and exposure to rape culture on the internet’

    Not a single person representing the girls interests.
    Not a single person raised the issue of consent being irrelevant.
    Not a single person inquired how the Pakistani community might react if English men raped Pakistani girls.
    Not a single person inquired why throughout months and months of reporting on sad old Savile, no-one made a fuss about abuse happening in all ethnic groups.

    I’m grateful for the link to a site with a map. I’ve being trying to collect the information about all the trials and it is difficult to piece together. There are, for instance, as pointed out, 2 Oxford gangs. Unfortunately I found the map awkward on my computer and I think that including all crimes detracts from the power of just highlighting these specific gang-commercial crimes. So far there has been no overview of the geographic coverage or the different charges (they seem to have changed since the first trials), the sentences given (the earlier ones were really light), number of girls involved, degrees of violence etc.

    Can anyone really believe that this has been allowed to happen in Europe? I can’t and I don’t understand why but I would put money on it that it is not a side-effect of out-breeding, we’re not that pathologically altruistic but all attempts to get this into the open have been criminalized and silenced.

    Reply

  8. @ Big Nose Kate.
    I’ve been reading up on these cases and came to the same conclusions as yourself. Why do the social services, police, media, etc keep referring to these girls as if they gave consent or where even capable of making rational free choices? Most were vulnerable and in the process of being groomed! Was there some kind of class divide thing going on here and these incompent functionaries of the state just viewed them as stupid slags? Did basic social work training cover the fact that abused kids often look for love in all the wrong places and your job is make sure no one exploits them? Why are adults allow to hang about care centres or pick underage girls up and no one questions it?

    Reply

  9. @big nosed Kate
    Those quotes are unbelievable. I can’t even stand to read about this. It makes my head explode.

    Reply

  10. @Utterly depressed Scottish girl
    ” Was there some kind of class divide thing going on here and these incompent functionaries of the state just viewed them as stupid slags? ”

    I think so. The elites have thrown the white working class Brits under the bus. It is outrageous.

    Reply

  11. Just reading an article on the Daily Mail. In the case of the Karrar Brothers, their father
    Is an interpreter for the Home Office who works with asylum seekers! Unbelievable.

    Reply

  12. @scottish girl – “…their father Is an interpreter for the Home Office who works with asylum seekers!”

    no frickin’ way!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =/

    Reply

  13. @kate – “-Muslim community elder
    ‘the crimes had to be secret because we have something called ‘shame’ in the Muslim community’”

    yup. this is the problem with letting clannish groups in to a non-clannish society (ONE of the problems) — a different set of morals wrt to the family and its interactions with the larger society. iow, family comes first — in a big way. the extended family or clan comes first.

    @kate – “-Muslim community member
    ‘we shouldn’t focus on a community that is only 2% of the population”

    h*ll, yes!, we should! particularly when that 2% seems to be committing near 100% of these types of crimes (gang grooming of underage white girls).

    @kate – “Not a single person representing the girls interests.”

    the msm is sooooooooooo biased and unbalanced.

    @kate – “I would put money on it that it is not a side-effect of out-breeding….”

    i think it is, ’cause what i suspect happens is that when you get rid of extended families/clans and have primarily nuclear families left, what winds up being important is … CLASS. and, like you guys are saying, that’s what a LOT of this is about. the privileged classes just don’t give a sh*t about these girls. why would they? they’re not their girls. =/

    Reply

  14. @ hbd chick, it’s the article titled in the DM titled middle class brothers whose father wanted them to Study at Oxford, seems papa was ambitious.

    @ melykin, there is another article in the DM about how the Labour Party sent search parties looking for worthy immigrants like his father. Poisonous elites indeed.

    Reply

  15. @scottish girl – “it’s the article titled in the DM titled middle class brothers whose father wanted them to Study at Oxford, seems papa was ambitious.”

    saw it. thanks!

    dunno what to say. just makes me sick to my stomach. =/

    Reply

  16. Worse of it is, you get the feeling that these cases are just the tip of the iceberg.

    Regarding hbd, I think the sexual disfunction caused by FBD marriage, Islamic Ideology and the extended clan is to blame. Just look at the whole madonna-whore thing they have going on with in group women and out group women. None of these men seem to ever take responsibly for their own sexual desires, it’s always she was out late at night, she was on her own, she wore sexy clothing…ad naseum. It seems to me that imams wanted to control powerful hormonal drives and channel them exclusively into Islam to produce more gullible followers.

    Reply

  17. “the bbc’s got a lot of f—ing nerve!!: “Oxford child rape trial: Why was it not stopped sooner?“

    The BBC are scum.

    .
    “In the UK, an underage girl or boy cannot give consent even if s/he wants to. If the police saw the men and saw the evidence of sex, they didn’t need the girl’s video. I think some serious professional malpractice has been covered up and I really hope that some group or other gets to the bottom of it and gets all the senior people who ignored the evidence sacked.”

    Quite.

    .
    “-The police chief who finally tackled the problem
    ‘we need a completely new way of detecting and dealing with these crimes, our previous methods were inadequate’”

    It was out in plain sight and didn’t need detecting. It was ignored for political reasons. Having said that surveillance methods would work very well for crimes like this and should be used.

    .
    “I’ve being trying to collect the information about all the trials and it is difficult to piece together.”

    This site is useful for that

    http://muslimrapewave.wordpress.com/

    .
    “I can’t and I don’t understand why but I would put money on it that it is not a side-effect of out-breeding, we’re not that pathologically altruistic but all attempts to get this into the open have been criminalized and silenced.”

    I think there are a lot of factors jumbled together but part of it was definitely political and cultural pressure. Before the media broke the story people could and did get sacked or transferred for opening their mouth and in Griffin’s case actually put on trial.

    .
    “Was there some kind of class divide thing going on here and these incompent functionaries of the state just viewed them as stupid slags?”

    That made it easier for the people ignoring it but i don’t think it was the reason. It was more of an excuse after the fact.

    Reply

  18. “The BBC are scum.”

    I guess fairer to say BBC “News” are scum rather than the whole organization.

    Reply

  19. @grey – “I guess fairer to say BBC ‘News’ are scum rather than the whole organization.”

    the news division is the worst wrt to this stuff, yes. but i think you can extend your evaluation out to other areas of the bbc, too. like, the last time i saw eastenders (i think i told you this before), one of the plot lines had to do with a gay couple trying to get married, but the white guy’s family disowned him on finding out he was gay (or wanted to marry a man or whatever), but his south asian (pakistani?) partner’s family were all supportive of the couple! yeah. like that would happen in the real world.

    nuthin’ but propaganda and indoctrination.

    the nature documentaries are still excellent for the most part. the rest could be trashed.

    Reply

  20. “yup. this is the problem with letting clannish groups in to a non-clannish society (ONE of the problems)”

    That and the blind ignorance of not being able to see that, far from not understanding the word ‘shame’, the very reason the girls put up with the trafficking was because of the shame that they felt in _their_ community. At the very least the man should be arrested for grossly indecent arrogance.

    “The elites have thrown the white working class Brits under the bus. It is outrageous.”

    Yes indeed, the people who made the sandwiches for the party are not allowed to eat any of them.
    and what Mandelson is saying (on the Links post) means that the goal of immigration was not only to secure additional votes for Labour but to destroy the conservative working class as a political force. And it worked; the cwp vote has gone to UKIP and split the conservative vote down the middle.

    “nuthin’ but propaganda and indoctrination.”
    isn’t that what I was trying to say about out-breeding being not-totally the architect of its own demise?

    Reply

  21. “the nature documentaries are still excellent”

    I caught Planet Earth last night. I haven’t seen it before. The aerial photography is amazing. One poor little elly got lost in a dust storm and David says,
    “So he does the only thing he knows how to do, he follows his mother’s footprints”
    and we watch him from above walking slowly and then David interrupts,
    “..sadly, he is following them the wrong way”
    and the camera pans out and the size of the barren landscape gets bigger and bigger and the little elly gets smaller and smaller
    (choke, sob)

    Reply

    1. Cripe, I wish I hadn’t read that about the baby elephant. Couldn’t the arsehole BBC cameramen have turned the elephant around?

      Reply

  22. @ HBD Chick – “heh! sorry. i have to admit that that bit made me LOL (’cause i know you’re a nice person and don’t mean that literally). the imagery was good though!”

    Well at least drop their testicles over Mecca.

    Reply

  23. HBD Chick, it sounds as if you are relatively new to the issue. In fact, these Muslim rape gangs have been an issue in the U.K. for years. There have been a couple of dozen of these trials going back to about 2006 or so, and in numerous towns and cities of the U.K.–it wasn’t concentrated in just one area.

    The issue was broached in about 2003 by a brave MP named Ann Cryer (since retired) who endured the usual demonization and screeches of “racism.” A 2004 expose by the U.K.’s Channel Four called “The Edge of the City” was pulled after the producers were pressured by local authorities who felt that it would damage “community cohesion.”

    In the early 2000s the BNP leader. Nick Griffin, was put on trial for “racism”–twice–for drawing attention to these rape gangs.

    There are estimates floating about that the number of victims run as high as 10 to 15K. Also, they involve girls of very young ages, typically much younger than the type of teen prostitutes you would see in Western cutlure–i.e., they are 11-14, not 16-18. That’s what the customers from that “culture” prefer.

    Reply

  24. There have also been several homicides or suspected homicides associated with the rape gangs. One girl who had been “groomed” at 12, got pregnant at 17, and was murdered by the family of her two “Asian” boyfriends.

    Two other girls, Paige Chivers and Charlene Downes, have been missing for several years and presumed dead. Both were associated with the owners Muslim-owned curry/kebab shops. The Downes child–only 14 at the time of her disappearance–is thought to have been put through a meat grinder because the kebab shop owners were overheard joking about it.

    The “Casuals United” blog has also been tracking the story for years. Also, the local British mainstream press and the Daily Mail DO report on them. You just have to know enough to google for coverage in say, the Yorkshire News, or something like that, because the national publications don’t cover the issue very thoroughly.

    Reply

  25. Here are the cases I know of,going back several years.

    Keighly
    Peterborough
    Bradford
    Blackpool
    Brighton and Hove
    Rochdale (multiple cases)
    Rotherham
    High Wycombe
    Leicester
    Leeds
    Hudersfield
    Shorpshire
    Oxford
    Derby
    Salford

    Reply

  26. @observer – “HBD Chick, it sounds as if you are relatively new to the issue. In fact, these Muslim rape gangs have been an issue in the U.K. for years.”

    not so much new to the issue as not having followed it very closely over the years. i did follow — and remember — what happened to griffin, but i hadn’t realized how out of hand this had all gotten. probably because of this…

    “… the national publications don’t cover the issue very thoroughly.”

    exactly. and i haven’t followed any local u.k. papers in quite a few years.

    thanks for the tip about the casuals united blog! haven’t seen that before.

    the cases you listed in your last comment: are those all “grooming” cases in the sense of gangs selling out these girls?

    thanks.

    Reply

  27. @kate – “Yes indeed, the people who made the sandwiches for the party are not allowed to eat any of them.”

    nicely put!

    @kate – “‘nuthin’ but propaganda and indoctrination.’
    isn’t that what I was trying to say about out-breeding being not-totally the architect of its own demise?”

    yes, you are absolutely right! i guess what i was trying to say earlier — or what i was thinking (can’t you read my mind yet? (~_^) ) — is that the outbreeding (and the behavioral traits that go along with it) is the ultimate cause behind all this, whereas all of the things that go along with the class war (the pc propaganda and indoctrination, for instance) are more promiximate causes. they all feed back into each other, though, making it all a big, ugly mess. much more for some than others.

    Reply

  28. One of the problems is that the usual BBC coverage dovetails with the Government derived official studies, such that they can keep repeating the results of the Commissioner’ Report “Inquiry into Child Sexual Exploitation in Gangs and Groups (CSEGG)” which did not compare the figures they themselves obtained about abusers against the Census figures. If you bother to do so, the over-representation of particular minorities is obvious.
    http://drjamesthompson.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/sex-gangs-crime-statistics-and.html

    Reply

    1. @ James Thompson

      From your link:
      Open reporting of ethnicity and other background details should be the norm in a free society.

      —————————–

      None of the western democracies are free societies by this criteria. They are all mired in political correctness.

      Reply

  29. @melykin – “Good article here.”

    that was really good. thanks, mel! from the article:

    “Gang members have grown wise to the wimpy ways of Western society.”

    uh huh. =/

    Reply

  30. Is there a reason the groups predominantly belong to pakistan.I havent heard much about indian muslims being involved.Also why are southasian sikhs,hindus not involved.Its not as if they treat women very well back home.

    Reply

  31. Soxy
    “Is there a reason the groups predominantly belong to pakistan”

    Numbers. The largest low-income muslim group in the UK are from Pakistan. The same thing is happening in Holland but there it’s Moroccans.

    Non-muslim ethnic groups tend to create forced prostitutes from among the poor within their own ethnic group i.e. they’ll go home and buy a girl from a family saying they’ll pretend she’s their kid and will work her as a maid but she’ll get free education and healthcare in the west in exchange – but they pimp her out instead. That’s a lot easier to hide though and the numbers are smaller.

    Reply

  32. “but they pimp her out instead”

    I meant to add “within their own group” hence why it’s easier to hide.

    Reply

  33. It is now — after reading about a number of these cases plus reading about the appalling cases of women being sexually assaulted in Tahrir Square in Egypt during the uprising — that I understand why men in these societies who care about their daughters watch then like hawks. In Saudi Arabia, where women are not allowed to drive, they must be driven by a male, so they are not alone. I’m beginning to see how this makes sense.

    I have to wonder if these men’s behavior is not partly cultural. True, they are not very nice specimens — must be very low on empathy, but their culture seems to not tell them that this is unacceptable.

    Reply

    1. Yup. And we have let these barbarians into the West. Instead of them adopting our culture apparently we have to adopt their culture and lock up our daughters to prevent them being preyed on by these filthy vicious thugs.

      Reply

  34. Answer to soxy (maybe): I read somewhere that the Hindu and Sikh immigrants to Britain are upper class. The Pakistanis were lower class, brought initially to work in textile mills (those jobs are gone now, leaving many unemployed).

    On the other hand there is a huge Sikh population in Vancouver, near where I live, and I have not heard of cases like this there. There must be several hundred thousand In greater Vancouver.

    Reply

  35. Pakistanis were integrating to some degree in 1970s. The textile industry collapsed only 10-20 yrs after they got here. Islamism started later. It’s a real shame they weren’t on work visas as I don’t see that the empire owed them a debt in the way it did to west Indians and Ugandan Asians.

    Sikhs tend to be appreciative of the structure provided by British culture and institutions whilst protecting their own communities and businesses. they do not seek to convert nor to dismantle.

    Reply

    1. The Sikhs in the Vancouver area are disproportionately involved in gangs, but not the sort of gangs that groom white girls for prostitution, as far as I know. They are more into drug dealing, I believe. We mostly only hear about them when rival gangs shoot each other (and it is quite common for Sikhs to shoot other Sikhs). In general the Sikhs don’t seem to be an underclass in Vancouver, and don’t cause too many problems. Though you hear about domestic violence within the community.

      The other big ethnic group in Vancouver is the Chinese. Sweden sent delegates to Vancouver to study the city and try to figure out why we don’t have many problems here with the immigrants. (Ans: not many Muzz or Africans or Mexicans)

      ————————————-
      Canada is a world leader in integrating immigrant children into the school system and a delegation from Sweden was in Vancouver this week to study what this country’s doing right.

      “We very much want to hear … what are you doing to be so successful?” said delegation leader Jaana Sandberg, development manager at Gothenburg’s Centre for School Development. “Some of your top students are immigrants. That’s not common in Sweden.”
      http://www.bipt.ca/node/1349

      Reply

  36. re ultimate and proximate

    ethnicity proliferates via marriage-reproduction. this blog describes two such systems – neighbor-civic and cousin-tribe. it is also suggested that cousin-civic wouldn’t work. but what about neighbor-tribe?

    Reply

  37. @scottish girl – “I knew it would only a matter of time before one of their female relatives would say something like this.”

    thanks! you know, i wasn’t surprised at reading what she had to say, but i wouldn’t have predicted it beforehand. i’m still so stupid (naive) sometimes.

    (btw – is everyone reading this blog scottish?! i get the impression that at least half of you are. not that there’s anything wrong with that! (~_^) )

    Reply

  38. @anne – “It is now — after reading about a number of these cases plus reading about the appalling cases of women being sexually assaulted in Tahrir Square in Egypt during the uprising — that I understand why men in these societies who care about their daughters watch then like hawks.”

    yes. i’ve been thinking along those same lines for a while now, too. not just that they watch their daughters like hawks, but tha what seems to be an insane level of sexual aggression might account for the burka and niqab — and why many women in these societies seem to be glad to cover up. i mean, if that’s how men were in my society, i might cover myself up from head-to-toe to protect myself as well!

    Reply

  39. @soxy – “Is there a reason the groups predominantly belong to pakistan.I havent heard much about indian muslims being involved.Also why are southasian sikhs,hindus not involved.Its not as if they treat women very well back home.”

    note that pakistanis practice father’s brother’s daughter’s (fbd) marriage — like the arabs and muslim middle easterners and north africans — whereas, comparatively speaking, hindus from india do not — and sikhs REALLY do not (see table in this post — specifically the first-column next to where i circled “Hindu, Muslim, Christian” — iow, the column headed “First cousin – Father’s side”). indian muslims do marry their paternal cousins, but their total cousin marriage rate appears to be at least half that of pakistan, which is 50%+.

    i suspect that there’s something about fbd marriage that makes men particularly whacked in the head when it comes to women.

    Reply

  40. “I knew it would only a matter of time before one of their female relatives would say something like this”

    yep

    .
    “i suspect that there’s something about fbd marriage that makes men particularly whacked in the head when it comes to women”

    if you want to control women then it pays to make the environment as violent as possible. if you want to avoid the negative consequences of a society that is wholly violent then be strict about general violence but tolerate violence against women which enhances control.

    so seems to me the more women’s marriage choices need to be controlled the more particular kinds of violence against women will be tolerated.

    at the other extreme a society that develops assortative mating requires women to be able to move around relatively freely so will trend in the opposite direction over time.

    Reply

  41. Graying Wanderer may have the answer. The WordPress commenting system is far behind Disqus, which lets you edit your comments, plus reply to someone, and they get an email (unless the person had turned email notification off). I believe you can add Disqus to any blog though, I believe.

    And yes, I would want to cover myself up and never go far from home if I lived in such a society too.

    Reply

  42. can’t you read my mind yet?

    well you’re a self-confessed clanswoman whilst i am just about as atomised as saxons get but one my tiny shred of vestigial clanning is to stick up for outbreeding! if someone sells me a lemon i don’t blame my naivety i blame the salesman’s deception.

    Reply

  43. “nicely put!”

    a phd in nutritional anthropology wasn’t a complete waste of time then!

    Reply

  44. @kate – “well you’re a self-confessed clanswoman whilst i am just about as atomised as saxons get but one my tiny shred of vestigial clanning is to stick up for outbreeding! if someone sells me a lemon i don’t blame my naivety i blame the salesman’s deception.”

    oh, absolutely! i’m with you there, 100%.

    i think the politicians and msm types and squishy academics who have foisted all this multiculturalism on the west should be made to answer for that — in a legal, civilized way, of course.

    but i think it’s also important to ask why some populations are more naive and gullible than others. i mean, you’d never get away with selling ANY of this to the arabs — not even the japanese, who are so nice! — so i think we’ve got to ask why these politically correct ideas work so well on westerners. otherwise we haven’t got a hope in hades in trying to remedy the situation. knowwhatimean?

    Reply

  45. @anne – “Exactly how does cousin marriage cause this dysfunction? Does the inbreeding affect them mentally or is it cultural or both? You may have blogged on it, forgive me if I missed it.’

    not sure. still trying to work it out (guessing for now, iow!).

    what greying wanderer said above, but also…

    ftr — i don’t think that the hyper-aggression against women in these societies has to do with just cousin marriage — i think it has to do with a specific form of cousin marriage, and that’s this father’s brother’s daughter’s (fbd) marriage that the arabs/north africans/muslim middle easterners/pakistanis/afghanis practice (see more about that here).

    fbd marriage does lead to greater degrees of inbreeding than other forms of cousin marriage, but it also results in all of the males in a patrilineage having the exact same y-chromosome as each other (in an “ideal” patrlineage, that is). this is a unique situation in mating patterns, and as i said in another post over here:

    “if there is a connection between violence and some gene(s) on the y-chromosome (i thought greg cochran said something about this, but i can’t find it now), maybe this is exacerbated by fbd marriage.”

    ultimately, though, we’re talking about long-term evolutionary processes here. what is happening, i think, is that different mating patterns set up different social structures (fbd marriage results in patrilineal clans, for instance), and then that in turn results in the selection for certain types of behaviors. what you have to ask yourself is: who does well in, for instance, a society based on patrilineal clans? whose fitness will be the highest in such an environment? particularly violent men who guard their women intensively (as greying wanderer suggested above)? maybe.

    (you might also be interested in this post, btw.)

    Reply

  46. @anne – “The WordPress commenting system is far behind Disqus, which lets you edit your comments, plus reply to someone, and they get an email (unless the person had turned email notification off). I believe you can add Disqus to any blog though, I believe.”

    i don’t like the idea of disqus, or any other third-party comments platform, because i don’t like the idea of having some unknown bunch of individuals having access to my commenters’ comments and, more importantly, your ips (unless you’re all using proxies? i hope?). frankly, i’m not happy with myself that i’ve gone on using wordpress for so long, and if i ever have the time (i.e. quit procrastinating about it!), i want to change that.

    Reply

  47. here’s a muslim leader in britain who calls it like it is. good for him!:

    The Oxford sex ring and the preachers who teach young Muslim men that white girls are cheap
    By Dr Taj Hargey [imam of the Oxford Islamic Congregation]

    While it is, of course, true that abuse happens in all communities, no amount of obfuscation can hide the pattern that has been exposed in a series of recent chilling scandals, from Rochdale to Oxford, and Telford to Derby.

    In all these incidents, the abusers were Muslim men, and their targets were under-age white girls.

    Moreover, reputable studies show that around 26 per cent of those involved in grooming and exploitation rings are Muslims, which is around five times higher than the proportion of Muslims in the adult male population.

    To pretend that this is not an issue for the Islamic community is to fall into a state of ideological denial.

    But then part of the reason this scandal happened at all is precisely because of such politically correct thinking. All the agencies of the state, including the police, the social services and the care system, seemed eager to ignore the sickening exploitation that was happening before their eyes.

    Terrified of accusations of racism, desperate not to undermine the official creed of cultural diversity, they took no action against obvious abuse….

    Another sign of the cowardly approach to these horrors is the constant reference to the criminals as ‘Asians’ rather than as ‘Muslims’.

    In this context, Asian is a completely meaningless term. The men were not from China, or India or Sri Lanka or even Bangladesh. They were all from either Pakistan or Eritrea, which is, in fact, in East Africa rather than Asia….

    By all accounts, this was not the version that these men heard in their mosques….

    In the misguided orthodoxy that now prevails in many mosques, including several of those in Oxford, men are unfortunately taught that women are second-class citizens, little more than chattels or possessions over whom they have absolute authority.

    That is why we see this growing, reprehensible fashion for segregation at Islamic events on university campuses, with female Muslim students pushed to the back of lecture halls….

    It is telling, though, that they never dared to target Muslim girls from the Oxford area. They knew that they would be sought out by the girls’ families and ostracised by their community….

    Reply

  48. @ why some populations are more naive and gullible than others

    for the reasons you’ve identified, I’m just wary of viewing that as pathological. it is what it is. a more invasive type of culture can overcome it, scissors, paper, stone, but I don’t think that makes it pathological. Japanese bindweed and other examples, rabbits, grey squirrels, sycamores, they were made for different environments. look at the bridge of Africa and Asia, think of all the toing and froing (HLA-stylee), it creates different needs than a plain stuck up in the far isolated northwest of Asia.

    Reply

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