clans in evolutionary biology – the clan haldane

as in j.b.s. haldane of — “would you give your life to save a drowning brother?” “no, but I would to save two brothers or eight cousins.”fame.

the clan haldane is a lowland scottish clan. historical records suggest an anglo-norman origin for the clan, but the genetics tell of a mixed origin — y-chromosomes of some haldane men have been found to be of both the r1b and i haplogroups.

the haldanes backed:
– robert the bruce
– the covenanters
– and the british against the jacobites.

two out of three ain’t bad! (~_^)

don’t ask me what the family crest represents!:

clan haldane crest badge - sm

(note: comments do not require an email. beetles!)

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22 Comments

  1. from Luke Lea:

    Doing some genealogical research on my father’s side (a sure sign I am getting old) I came across an interesting history of the Keith clan written by a talented historian. Unlike the Haldanes, the Keiths backed the pretender and paid the price: http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/families/keiths.htm

    Equally fascinating is the story of one of my less-savory New England ancestors, Peter Tallman, from Rhode Island. I sent it to my sister because she’s a lawyer, a woman, and went to school in Rhode Island: http://minerdescent.com/2012/01/19/17th-century-premarital-sex/ (Scroll down to Tallman) They treated adultery rather severely back then didn’t they?

    Luke

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  2. At the risk of boring the reader here is another window into the realities of early New England by a charmingly illiterate ancestor of mine:

    I, Simon Athearn, an Inhabitant of Tisbury on martins vineyard: do make my most humble petition vnto the most Excellent and Right honorable Gouernor ouer all his Ryel hinesse his Territories in America:…

    If it please your honnor I humbly Conciue I haue reciued rong in the loss of my seruant, if not to teadious thuse:

    I took a naked Indian boy to be my apprentic fower years the which term he was to serue me my heirs & assigns:

    & I my heirs or assigns to prouid him sofitient duble apparrell & one good young Cow for his seruic,

    but after about a yeare there Came an Indian of the boys kindred & vtered violant words to the great afrightning of my wife, & Caryed away my boy:

    but sum days after the Indians brought him againe so about a weeke after I had ocation to goo from whom and left my boy to doe as I had apoynted him but the same day I went from the Iland the boy run away also but soone after the Indians brought him again.

    then the boy would haue agreed with my wife that If she would lett him goe euery satterday and Com on munday then he would tary till I com hom

    but my wife said no you shall not go to stink of your Company but you shall go to meeting with me and do as your master hath appoynted you:

    but quickly after my boy run away: so after the end of three weeks or near a month I Came whom1: my boy was then at whom the Indians hauing brought him two days before, and my wife telling me of his doing I gaue the boy boxxes vpon the eare with my fist,

    so sum dayes after the boy run away again:

    then I complained to mr. mayhew2 our gouernor and the Justic I had;

    the boy was to return to me but I not to requier any thing for lose of him (because I strook him twice) and if I strook him soe again he should be free.)

    but no punishment to boy nor Indian for I neuer strook the boy before nor senc,

    yet when greene Indian Corn was eatable my boy run away again and hath beene gon euer senc, so he hath absented my seruic about four month vnto my great disopoyntment and Lose

    I would haue shewed your honnor a Coppy of the Indenture but James allin an assistant the man yt hath it in keeping would not let me haue a coppy of it at a tim

    I said if my boy would not serue me, I would sell him:

    vnto which Richard sarson an assistant answared my Indentur was vnlawfull becase he was bound to serue me my heirs or assignes:

    why said sarson it should haue beene mentioned within this gournment-and its a known thing it hath beene Mr Mayhews Judgment that no master should strik his seruant and that if the seruant is not willing to abid the master should let him go:

    I shall not mention the many greeuiences which are, But this I know that if things be not mended diuers of the inhabitants will remoue their dwelling to doe whare they Can:

    where for I besech your honnor to graunt vs your Law to be our rule and square to walke, by that we may be deliuered from all rible rable and notions of men

    doubtlesse if things ware better I should giue you a better Carrictor

    also I besech your honnor to Consider vs your saruants in our low estat we being but about 38: English men on the Iland able to bear arms: and the Indians a multitud

    Mr Mayhews tennants I hope your honnor will in goodnesse and marcy to vs Giue order that all English Lands be inhabited with a Competant number of English inhabitants:

    and that no person or persons be sufered to lett any indian or indians haue any powder in these perilous times:

    also I besech your honnor to giue order that each town build them a meting house and Call them and maintain them a minister able to devid the word of god alright, that we may be kept from profainness herresse and vic

    and a scoolmaster to teach our Children:

    so both vs and our Children shall haue your honnor in renown foreuer…

    Reply

  3. Not so off topic: on the subject of clans and inbreeding vs. outbreeding would it be true to conclude one would have a much more numerous number of ancestors within recent generations in an outbred society v. an inbred one, connecting one to a much wider cross-section of the society one belongs to?

    I ask because while playing around on ancestry.com I learned I am a descendant of one, Richard Warren, who came over on the Mayflower. I was feeling pretty proud until I discovered Warren was the most prolific member on board with an estimated 14 million descendants!

    Likewise one of my ancestors was a humble English craftsman named William Hart who married another craftsman’s daughter whose name happened to be Joan Shakespeare, making her more famous borther’s father my eighth great grandfather. Fancy that!

    When you do the math people in out-bred societies seem to almost inevitably be related to just about everybody who was anybody after only a few generations.

    Reply

  4. @woccam – “JBS was my biology prof at UCL for a semester in 1945.”

    that is so cool! (^_^)

    now i feel like i can play “six degrees of j.b.s. haldane”! i “know” someone online … who knew haldane! surely that gives me a haldane number of 2, no? (~_^)

    Reply

  5. Luke Lea: 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great-grandparents. 1024 after 10 generations (300 years.) That doesn’t sound like much, but another 300 hundred would be a million ancestors, and back to 1100 would be – no, wait, there weren’t a billion people in the world then. It’s called Pedigree Collapse. The number of your ancestors at any point in time doesn’t get above 2 million, because of doubling over – 3rd, 5th, or 9th cousin marriage in limited populations. I have yet to find any doublings among my New England Puritans, but only about 20,000 came over, so it’s likely.

    Reply

  6. Dear Assistant Village Idiot: Is it possible that a guy like Richard Warren could leave 14 million descendants? He is supposedly my 11th great grandfather, so that means 13 generations? How many kids would each generation have to have to get to 14 million? I notice most of the ones in my tree had 8-to-10 though of course not all of them would have lived, let alone married and had offspring.

    Reply

  7. I notice that 3 to the 13th power equals 1,594,323. So a little over 3 offspring per descendant in each generation would get there? Sounds more than possible.

    Reply

  8. “Joan Shakespeare, making her more famous borther’s father my eighth great grandfather. Fancy that!”

    very cool. mine are all stonemasons and soldiers going back to the ice age – not a famous name anywhere :(

    Reply

  9. The early New England Puritans had very high birthrates and better-than-average survival rates. So if you had 8-10 of your own, and each of them had 8-10, the rest of the descent wouldn’t have to involve very high numbers per generation.

    Rather like the “miracle of compound interest,” which is true, but it’s even more impressive if you invested a million to start with.

    Reply

  10. @david – “Signifies a genetic predisposition to overtightening their belts.”

    heh! to the point where they “suffer” apparently! (~_^)

    Reply

  11. @luke – “Unlike the Haldanes, the Keiths backed the pretender and paid the price.”

    oops! =/

    @luke – “Ann requested mercy, and the Court asked whether she were willing to reconcile with her husband, ‘to which her answer was, that she would rather cast herselfe on the mercy of God if he take away her life, than to returne.'”

    guess she reeeeally didn’t like her husband. (~_^)

    Reply

  12. @luke – “‘…then the boy would haue agreed with my wife that If she would lett him goe euery satterday and Com on munday then he would tary till I com hom….'”

    he just wanted weekends off! (~_^)

    @luke – “…and that no person or persons be sufered to lett any indian or indians haue any powder in these perilous times….”

    don’t give the injuns weapons, whatever you do! (~_^)

    Reply

  13. @luke – “Not so off topic: on the subject of clans and inbreeding vs. outbreeding would it be true to conclude one would have a much more numerous number of ancestors within recent generations in an outbred society v. an inbred one, connecting one to a much wider cross-section of the society one belongs to?”

    yes, that’s right. in an inbreeding population, your ancestors should be doing more “double-duty” than in an outbreeding population. should be greater branching (as far as it can go) in an outbreeding society.

    remember how the (seriously inbreeding) father’s brother’s daughter’s lineages collapse in on themselves?

    Reply

  14. @g.w. – “very cool. mine are all stonemasons and soldiers going back to the ice age – not a famous name anywhere :( “

    heh. (^_^)

    well, at least your ancestors DID something. afaict, all of mine were peasant dirt farmers. of course, i don’t really know ’cause there aren’t really any written records. *facepalm*

    i did find one census record which one of my great-great-grandmothers as head-of-the-household (guess her husband was dead) had signed — with an X. =( (she had 9 surviving kids, so who cares if she couldn’t write, right?!)

    oh, i did discover a great-uncle who was a tailor. presumably he was the gay member of the family. (~_^)

    Reply

  15. “oh, i did discover a great-uncle who was a tailor. presumably he was the gay member of the family”

    i think the gay ones in my family joined the navy instead :p

    Reply

  16. I didn’t tell you that after I did 23andMe I got an email from an African American woman in Mississippi telling me that we seem to be related, through the maternal line most likely. At least we share a big chunk of haplotypes. We’re trying to trace it down through Lydia Russell, one of my less distinguished ancestors.

    http://www.larkcom.us/ancestry/Bean/notables.cfm

    Correction. Make that one of my “most distinguished” ancestors, sire of Russell Bean. But if the connection is real I think it most likely through one of those lines that wink out into obscurity after the 3rd generation, which is true of about half my stock. I suspect my grandmother’s grandmother may have had an illegitimate daughter by an African-American man who lived on the property.

    Reply

  17. @g.w. – “i think the gay ones in my family joined the navy instead :p

    (^_^) (^_^) (^_^)

    great. now i’ve got the village people song in my head…. (~_^)

    Reply

  18. “the british against the jacobites: no, no, the Hanoverians against the Jacobites. (As did everyone else with much choice in the matter, unless they were small of wit.)

    Reply

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