the “cult” of human biodiversity … again

mr. rational points out that part two of The Truth About the HBD Cult has been posted @nexxtlevelup (thnx, mr. rational!) — and that it’s as sad as part one was.

i only had a quick look at it, but i have to say i agree. again, afaics, nothing about what human biodiversity (hbd) is — or what might be wrong with any hbd data (i’m sure some of it is wrong) — just a lot of stuff about “shame” from self-help gurus. -?-

maybe i’ll take a closer look at the post later in the week — then again, maybe not — i’ll prolly have better things to do with my time. but if you’ve read it and want to offer an evaluation of the piece (not just mockery, please), here (in the comments ↓) is the place for you (since some comments don’t seem to be getting through @nexxtlevelup)!

previously: the first rule of the hbd cult is…

(note: comments do not require an email. cone of shaaaame.)

39 Comments

  1. Prologue:  Here is the first of two comments that the “moderators” at nextlevelup wouldn’t let through (multiple times).  This one actually appeared with an “awaiting moderation” notice, then the “awaiting moderation” line disappeared (yay, posted!) then the whole thing vanished from the comments page (what?).  Meanwhile, empty claims that HBD is scientifically baseless are posted without impediment.

    (this comment was written for Part 1, but it never got posted to the thread and after reading partway into Part 2 I see it’s just about equally pertinent!)

    My goodness, is the main post ever a load of special pleading, studied ignorance of contrary facts and other post-modernist nonsense.  Take this:

    The believers in this pseudoscience cult like to call themselves “race realists.” They fixate on spreading the gospel of how non-Asian minorities are inherently genetically inferior to whites in terms of intelligence, and that this intelligence gap can never be bridged regardless of what political actions are taken by government or how much hard work is done by these groups.

    How is this pseudoscience? In any other arena, it would be called epidemiological evidence drawn from longitudinal studies. The bald assertion is a “point-and-sputter” tactic that does not stand up to logical scrutiny.

    We can be quite sure that the intelligence gap (among others!) is very hard to bridge, because we’re coming up on 60 years and three (and in some cases, FOUR!) generations of Black students since Brown and “the gap” stubbornly persists. Obviously, genes matter. Not even complete replacement of the family structure and environment offsets their influence, as proven by the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study. That was done several DECADES ago, yet our public policy and current social dogma are based on the exact opposite premise: that children are blank slates, and can become whatever their environment writes on them.

    What does HBD say? I’ll meet your bibligraphy and trump you with Cochran and Harpending, “The Ten Thousand Year Explosion”. HBD says that different human populations have gone through different selective regimes (e.g. all non-African populations appear to have some admixture from the earlier diaspora which became Neanderthals) and have different genetic endowments and tendencies as a result. That’s all. Culture builds on those different endowments and can amplify them, but that’s sociology and not HBD.

    The most accurate way to describe HBD/”race realism” is as a narcissistic cult/support group for shame-filled white people who have trouble reconciling the grandiose self-image they grew up with against the increasingly mundane reality they are faced with as adults.

    This is so extremely ironic, because it refers to the exact things that the Afrocentrists do without daring to name them because it would blow the whole game apart. In other words, it tries to shame HBDers by likening them to Black people.

    The “narcissistic support group” label truly applies to Blacks, who are prone to claiming things from the invention of peanut butter, blood banks, gasks masks and traffic lights for their own race and list them as causes for racial pride (we’ll happily give them the Super Soaker). Their current situation is the result of “oppression” and “racism”, for which they are owed “reparations” (some even deeming many Whites as “reparations offenders”, worthy of being killed for their impudence). Most White people’s limit of “oppression” of Blacks consists of wanting to be left alone, because Black people harass Whites to the point of ethnic cleansing from entire cities. The irony is that Black people can’t stand the social environments of their own monochrome cities once they’ve created them, so they move once again in pursuit of White people.

    Shame, which is more toxic and primitive, is when you think there is something wrong with what you are.

    I’m very glad you mentioned this, because there is a superb example of shame in a recent comment from “Missy” on SPBDL (emphasis in bold added):

    Speaking of metal detectors mr. author, they are needed to save us from whites. Just look at all of the mass shootings recently..even going back to Columbine. You people need to wake up and see the problems in your own community before turning to ours.
    Missy

    Do you see any guilt there for Blacks committing the vast majority of the 500 murders last year in Chicago alone? No, you do not. Missy is ashamed of that, and is trying to deflect shame using the “tu quoque” fallacy. If anyone bought into it, the next step would be to demand “assistance” to “build up the community”. This begs the question of why Black people can’t build their own peaceful and prosperous communities, like Whites do wherever they go when they flee from Black invasion and the inevitable predation and parasitism.

    It is truly remarkable that, whenever Black majorities attain political power, they fail utterly to produce the stellar results of which they claim they are capable. It is the Dunning-Kruger effect on a mass scale.

    What’s ironic is that you’re trying to make HBDers feel guilty for “doing the bad thing” of believing in and spreading the idea that… human biodiversity exists!  Yup, feel guilt (NOT shame, it’s correctible!).  On the other hand, certain groups whose violent reaction to any criticism of bad conduct indicates their feelings of shame rather than guilt… get a pass from you.  Most amusing, once you learn to read through the prolix postmodernist pettifoggery in which all of these attempted “rebuttals” are written.

    [edit: sorry! this comment wound up in my spam box. you’re having bad luck with your comments lately! (~_^) – h.chick]

    Reply

  2. Here is the second comment, in its final form (I kept trying to post it, assuming that its vanishing was due to a malfunction… no, it appears that ALL comments are normally held until manually approved, and only those caught by filters receive any sort of notice that the blog software received them).

    Coming back to the present:

    Tearing down others, which in the case of HBDers means other races.

    On the contrary.  How can you “tear down” a city-full of people who elect a functional illiterate to its board of education… which then proceeds to make him its president?  (Otis Mathis, Detroit.)  To imply that noting the obvious is “tearing down” is to deny the primacy of evidence over belief, which is a very post-modernist idea.  An entire city in which half the population is functionally illiterate is proof that something is badly wrong.  If you must deny a priori that race could have anything to do with it, you’re an apologist for dogma and not arguing a hypothesis based on evidence.  If you refuse to note that the failure of so many Blacks in school is associated with the stigmatization of doing well as “acting White”–which sounds suspiciously shame-based to me–all the HBDers who are the targets of your finger-pointing are just going to laugh at you.

    <smirk>

    Look at all the blog posts and articles they do that dwell on the state of Black America or the third world rather than organizing any type of platform that discusses plausible real-world political action.

    You mean, like putting welfare cases to work doing whatever their capabilities will let them do, instead of leaving them to sit around all day supported by EBT and causing trouble?  Oh, right, you did say “plausible”; we used to do that, but the forces of cultural Marxism decided it was “racist”, “cruel”, or the worst thing of all, “insensitive”.

    when blogger Chuck Ross seriously claimed in last week’s installment that his Blacks Behaving Badly series of posts were not an example of gloating over racial superiority when he was called on it.

    That sounds suspiciously like you’re saying that the Blacks in question are not behaving better (if they could, it would be an occasion for guilt) because they cannot behave better (an occasion for shame).  Are you?

    Excuse me, I have to go laugh now.

    PS:  What’s with the deletion of paragraph breaks by the input filters?  It’s very unfriendly to authors and readers alike.
    PPS:  What’s with the hit-and-miss posting of comments?  The above is the first one on which I’ve ever gotten notice from the blog that it was entered; everything else just vanished into the ether.  I’ve made 13 previous attempts to post this one.

    Reply

  3. I figured that hbdchick would become her alter ego, Superlative Girl, and rescue the lost comment. And I was right.

    Reply

  4. What a windbag the anti-HBDer is. But he missed some extra syllables here:

    “If you’ve spent any time reading men’s blogs, I’m sure by now you’ve come across the rantings of a subsection of the manosphere who believe in something called human biodiversity, or HBD for short.”

    It’s “spittle-flecked ranting”, surely?

    rant, n. statement with which a liberal disagrees.

    rant, vb. to make statements with which a liberal disagrees.

    Reply

  5. Big nose … can I suggest a few things?

    have you collectively ever thought about constructing a front blog to deflect visitors to – I thought of this first in relation to HBDC’s hypothesis as it is such a brilliant hypothesis and starts with an accident of history so I think professionals in the UK would be interested if it was presented quite matter-of-factually as Summary, Processes (relatedness, inclusive fitness), Reviews of published Case Studies.

    Equally a general HBD blog could be made really attractive, maybe keep diagrams smaller as sometimes they come up on my screen so big I can’t get the pattern at a glance. a lot of blogs not just HBD blogs contain a lot of words. bullet points sometimes help. And just leave out the conclusions.

    Also, maybe soften the language a bit; focus on talking about overlapping distributions rather than talking about The Gap, which is quite provocative language, and highlight positive strategies for education etc.

    sorry if that sounds critical, I’d like to see the work that’s being done given a fair hearing.

    the other stuff – like why this is happening and where it’s all going to lead is perhaps off-putting for some people who might otherwise read the research and, come to the conclusion that HBD is interesting and possibly more valid than they’d been led to believe.

    Kate

    Reply

  6. Thanks hbd chick, I’m really really happy Mr. Rational found a place to post his troll comments, the guy is so annoying and posts the same thing over and over again in every comment not saying anything new or even talking about the post at hand. Jesus

    Reply

  7. Blah, blah, blah, shame, blah, blah, white privilige, blah, racism, yammer, yammer, can’t get laid, blah, blah…

    The same lame shit for fifty years. Can’t these people get some new, entertaining lies? And yeah, anyone who disagrees with anti-HBDer’s is a “troll”. Typical.

    Reply

  8. the guy is so annoying and posts the same thing over and over again in every comment

    You mean, because your blog’s complete lack of any indication that comments are held for moderation (and no new comments are posted for days) looks like a bug?  A bug that people might try to work around just in case it’s intermittent?

    I’m not kidding about the deletion of paragraph breaks either.  Someone writes a nicely-formatted piece and the automatic deletions turn it into a wall of text.  You need to fix that.  Most other blog software does it right.  You also need to add book-markable links to each comment; they have anchors, but you have to dig into the page HTML to get them for direct citations.

    not saying anything new or even talking about the post at hand.

    Ah, right.  Citing the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study which conclusively proves that there is a strong genetic component to IQ, which shows how the weasel-wording of Mark Manson claiming an environmental component is ridiculous nonsense.  Nobody said there wasn’t.  I can “environmentally” reduce your IQ with a hammer applied to your head.  What matters is what’s left after all the reasonably reducible environmental effects are taken out (family not being one of them), and it’s obvious that the remnant difference is anything but small.

    Reply

  9. @virglekent – “I’m really really happy Mr. Rational found a place to post his troll comments, the guy is so annoying and posts the same thing over and over again in every comment not saying anything new or even talking about the post at hand.”

    @mr. rational – “You mean, because your blog’s complete lack of any indication that comments are held for moderation (and no new comments are posted for days) looks like a bug? A bug that people might try to work around just in case it’s intermittent?”

    virgle, i’m inclined to believe mr. rational here and not your conclusion that he is some sort of troll. i left a double comment on the first hbd cult article (which i apologized for) because i couldn’t tell if comments were going through or being held for moderation or what. i also left two or three other comments on the original post that never went through and they were not repeats of what i had said earlier. and i’m not even going to bother trying to comment on the second post because i just don’t have that much patience.

    you have a problem with your commenting system. or, at least, there is a problem in communicating to your readers/commenters how the commenting system works.

    Reply

  10. @virglekent – do NOT come over here again just to insult people. you can do that on your own site, but it will not be tolerated here. your comments will now be held in moderation for my approval until further notice.

    Reply

  11. It’s difficult to address T’s argument because it is completely unrelated to reality. He doesn’t even try to show that his half-digested pop psychology notions in any way describe HBDers. He doesn’t cite HBDers to analyze their ideas or motivations or character; he just asserts that HBDers are this and that. His posts are litanies of evidence-free assertions and straw men (e.g., “genetic determinism”). He blathers about Dweck’s research but fails to demonstrate that it is in any way relevant for HBD; perhaps the different mindsets Dweck describes contribute to IQ variation (I’m skeptical), but this in no way diminishes the heritability of IQ. (BTW, if the mindsets are real, they must be heritable to some degree.)

    T simply fails to construct a coherent and logical argument about HBD. At least I cannot find one in his posts. The only way I can interpret his ramblings is to resort to remote psychoanalysis myself. T’s flailing against HBD is all projection. He is himself ashamed because of the failings of his racial kin and also fears that his own failings are due to genetic inferiority. He attempts to project these feelings of inferiority onto white HBDers, but this accusation is so untenable that the result is an incoherent mess. Nevertheless, because of his abiding narcissism, he thinks he is actually making a rational argument when he is just desperately projecting and rationalizing his own feelings of inadequacy.

    Reply

  12. T simply fails to construct a coherent and logical argument about HBD. At least I cannot find one in his posts. The only way I can interpret his ramblings is to resort to remote psychoanalysis myself. T’s flailing against HBD is all projection.

    Precisely.  T attributes to HBDers the exact things that Afrocentrists do… but HBDers don’t do them.

    Reply

  13. I think that Ricki has correctly observed tendency among HBDers to ‘give with one hand and take with the other’ (e.g., asians are smarter than whites but less creative).

    I responded. I hope he publishes my comment.
    ——————
    “What HBDers give with one hand, they take away with the other”

    I cannot fault your observation. It’s true. However, what if the people you’re observing are also true?

    Some question that HBDers try to answer are:

    1. Are all races equally capable at developing and maintaining a civilization on par with what the West has achieved?

    2. Is the West only possible under European populations?

    It is in this context that HBDers give with one hand and take with the other. For if it is true that the West is only possible under European populations, then European populations are genetically “just right’ for it, and other races are not.

    So when A HBDer says that Asians are smart but not creative, he is stating that, while Asians are smart, smartness itself may not be enough to maintain and create civilization on part with the West. Similarly, when a HBDer says that African Americans are too masculine and that Asians are too feminine and that whites are just right, he is assessing what degree of masculinity is required for the maintenance and creations of civilization on par with the West.

    Reply

  14. @ben316 – “I think that Ricki has correctly observed tendency among HBDers to ‘give with one hand and take with the other’ (e.g., asians are smarter than whites but less creative).”

    i don’t see that as “giving with one hand and taking with the other” — i just see it as an attempt to describe things as they are.

    but you are right that many western hbd’ers are interested in trying to explain western civilization — ’cause it’s a curious thing. how did it come to pass that one part of the world pretty much invented things like the scientific method and liberal democracy (fwiw) and no one else did. it requires explanation — at least it does for people who are curious about the world and how it works.

    Reply

  15. the thing is, most people can’t handle the truth. and they take things personally. (maybe they’re right to ’cause i guess these things are personal — perhaps i’m the one that’s defective in not taking these things personally. (~_^) )

    so far, every single time i’ve writtem about a population that i haven’t written about before — the italians, the irish, the scots, the serbs, the russians, the poles, the chinese — someone popped up to take issue with what i’ve written — which is fine, of course — but they all have seemed, to different degrees, to be annoyed at what i’ve written (usually something about how inbred and/or corrupt their population is).

    most people can’t deal with the facts — or even attempts to find the facts. they don’t like it, and they don’t want to hear it.

    Reply

    1. @HBD Chick:

      “the thing is, most people can’t handle the truth. and they take things personally….”

      Beautiful! So well said. I’m quoting this! :D

      Reply

  16. It’s actually quite interesting reading the comments. A significant number are pointing out that whether you agree with HBD or not, making ad hominem attacks isn’t going to help.

    Reply

  17. @jayman – “Beautiful! So well said.”

    well, that one came from the heart. (^_^)

    (or maybe my gut — i’m starving! — gotta go get something to eat…. (~_^) )

    Reply

  18. @kiwiguy – “A significant number are pointing out that whether you agree with HBD or not, making ad hominem attacks isn’t going to help.”

    well, that’s good! was so busy today i didn’t get a chance to go over there and see.

    Reply

  19. @p – “It’s difficult to address T’s argument because it is completely unrelated to reality.”

    yup.

    @p – “He doesn’t even try to show that his half-digested pop psychology notions in any way describe HBDers.”

    yup.

    @p – “He doesn’t cite HBDers to analyze their ideas or motivations or character; he just asserts that HBDers are this and that.”

    yup!

    @p – “He blathers about Dweck’s research but fails to demonstrate that it is in any way relevant for HBD; perhaps the different mindsets Dweck describes contribute to IQ variation (I’m skeptical), but this in no way diminishes the heritability of IQ.”

    exactly!

    @p – “BTW, if the mindsets are real, they must be heritable to some degree.”

    heh. yup.

    @p – “T simply fails to construct a coherent and logical argument about HBD. At least I cannot find one in his posts.”

    well, i didn’t see one either.

    Reply

    1. @HBD Chick:

      “@jayman – ‘Carl Sagan’s Baloney Detection Kit’

      that is so awesome! how come i’ve never seen that before? i love it”

      Glad to see that it’s still useful! ;)

      Reply

  20. @big nose kate – “have you collectively ever thought about constructing a front blog to deflect visitors to … I think professionals in the UK would be interested if it was presented quite matter-of-factually as Summary, Processes (relatedness, inclusive fitness), Reviews of published Case Studies.

    “Equally a general HBD blog could be made really attractive, maybe keep diagrams smaller … bullet points sometimes help. And just leave out the conclusions.

    “Also, maybe soften the language a bit; focus on talking about overlapping distributions rather than talking about The Gap, which is quite provocative language, and highlight positive strategies for education etc.”

    yeah, those are all really good ideas — to try to present human biodiversity more succinctly, in a more easily accessible manner, and maybe more kindly and gently. (~_^)

    problem is, there’s only 24 hours in the day (can’t somebody do something about that) … plus i and the other hbd bloggers might have to think about cloning ourselves. (^_^)

    seriously — i will definitely think about this. but it might not happen anytime soon (at least not on my part, unfortunately). thanks for the suggestions!

    Reply

  21. @P:

    “It’s difficult to address T’s argument because it is completely unrelated to reality. He doesn’t even try to show that his half-digested pop psychology notions in any way describe HBDers…”

    Yeah, pretty much. I want to debate with him, and I’ve started to engage, but now, really, I’m just not seeing the point…

    Is it too much to ask that if someone is critical of HBD (which is a good thing), they make an argument worth discussing?

    Reply

  22. @jayman – “Is it too much to ask that if someone is critical of HBD (which is a good thing), they make an argument worth discussing?”

    yes — i was looking forward to part 2 because he said he’d have some criticisms of hbd … but all this psychobabble stuff? meh.

    Reply

  23. Just commented over there. I believe one of the author’s claims is that HBD’ers exhibit a form of attribution bias (based on the links to the Dweck studies on attribution theory and entity v. incremental theory – a point I’ll address later as I’ve need of sleep); in doing so, however, the author commits the same bias!

    Reply

  24. Golly, gee. What great news. I read this site so I’m a member of a cult. I thought only cool people were allowed into cults. So I followed the link – The Truth About the HBD Cult – to t-h-e-m and found what purports to be a video of some immodestly dressed women. The explanation for what would appear on the face of it to be shameless (and not guiltless) sexual expoitation [join us and have fantasies about our parties] on the part of THEIR cult was “The following video is NSFW because of tiggs” That was lost on me, but I suppose you have to be one of them to understand.

    I managed to hold it together until “professor T” dropped his killer objection to anybody with an interest in human biodiversity. “THEY ALWAYS TRY TO WIN ARGUMENTS.” I cannot think of a response of sufficient sarcasm. Soo I shall have to do with what I did manage to read. Apparently is goes: Guilt good, Shame bad. I set much more store by what people say about themselves than by what they say about others. So let’s take the “good,” which presumably refers to the prof himself. He embraces guilt. He’s proud of his guilt. His guilt gives him the right to sneer at anybody he wants to sneer at if it will make him feel better and tamper with their lives as well … I got that right didn’t I?

    Since I like evidence I shall have to decline joining the prof’s cult. Does that mean I don’t get to watch his video?

    Reply

  25. Methodology of this clown: Person who holds belief X has mental state Y therefore truth value of X is invalid. Guy needs to study a little logic. :)

    Reply

  26. I was thinking that “Professor T” was a fiction, but now I have run across this:
    “a virtual discussion with Professor Magda Teter, professor of history and the Jeremy Zwelling Professor of Jewish Studies, focusing on her most recent book, Sinners on Trial.” so maybe there is such a person and I ought to be nicer. I’m glad I learned that in time. I was on the verge of saying that of course you learn shame, which is part of self awareness, before you learn to consider your mistakes, which is called responsibility most of the time, and if you have no shame you are infantile to a disabling degree, which seems to be the case here. But now I know that there may be such a person, I shall not say it.

    and @ Ben 316 “Some question that HBDers try to answer are:

    1. Are all races equally capable at developing and maintaining a civilization on par with what the West has achieved?

    That particular questions I think does have an answer. If you check out the December 21, 2012 posting on nobabies.net you will soon find the graph of the survival expectance of Mesopotamian civilizations graphed against their age. If and ethnic group had an advantage over any other, it woujld stand out as an anomalous exception to the rule that civilizations simply decay over time and only time brings them down: neither interior nor exterior elements are effective. That’s not to say we are all alike and there is no diversity. But it is to say that in this one respect we are alike. And yes, Alexander’s European civilization is in the data and is not very impressive for longevity as a regime.

    I suspect the triumph of the West has been a fertility issue brought on by a forntunate mating strategy optimizing stabilty. That strategy seems to have been abandoned in my lifetime. So I would not council complacency if you have any affection for the West.

    Just thought you might like to see the data.

    Reply

  27. @linton – “Golly, gee. What great news. I read this site so I’m a member of a cult.”

    yes! i’ll be passing out the kool-aid later. (~_^) (don’t worry — it’ll only be spiked with gin! homemade, of course. only the finest!)

    Reply

  28. @nelson – “On another note: thanks for incorporating my layman’s definition of HBD in your *hbd page! :-)”

    no, thank YOU! (~_^) seriously — it’s an excellent definition. nice and tidy and straight to the point!

    Reply

  29. I drank the Kool-Aid. I nodded sagely when geneticists explained to me that the time over which human races had developed, no more than 200,000 years, was not enough for racial differences to have evolved in any characteristics as important as intelligence. They went on to explain that genetic studies had not only demonstrated this, but disproved the very idea of race.

    Then in 2005, Cochran and Harpending pointed out the anomaly of Ashkenazi Jewish intelligence, and I realised I had been suckered. Not by no-name race hustlers, but by Stephen Jay Gould and Steve Jones, two of the leading evolutionary biologists who write for a wider audience.

    So now, when the real race hustlers tell me there’s nothing to see here, I will ignore them. I will treat evidence on either side with the skepticism that it deserves, but I will not decide in advance that particular conclusions are a sign of the authors’ bad science, bad faith, or lack of human decency.

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s