oh, those wacky germanic peoples!

first the germans (from late last year: “Why 13 percent of Germans would welcome a ‘Führer’“), and now the swedes:

Many young Swedes favour dictatorship

“Over 25 percent young Swedes think that it would be ‘good or very good’ for Sweden to be less democratic and ruled by a strong and dictatorial leader, according to a new study….

“According to the survey, 26 percent of 18-29-year-olds thought that it would be good or very good if a ‘strong leader who didn’t have to care about a Riksdag or an election’ ruled Sweden….”

i’m not big into dictators or “strong leaders” myself, but if democracy hasn’t been that good to you … i mean, if tptb have been busy electing a new people … well, i can understand where the sentiment might be coming from.

btw, the survey was apparently part of the world values survey thingie, but i couldn’t find any new data posted on their website. (*hbdchick shrugs shoulders*)

fyi: germanic peoples.

update: actually, maybe i should’ve entitled the post “oh, those wacky slavs!”

going by the LAST round of world values survey surveys (i.e. not the one referred to the the article about the sveeedes above), it was the slavs who most longed for a strong leader. the mediterranean nations did pretty well, actually (if democracy is your thing, that is) — slightly fewer 15-29 year old italians wanted a strong leader as compared to their german peers. and the young spaniards ranked in between the finns and the french. (greece was not included in the survey, unfortunately.)

but just look at the slavs! 76% of young romanians thought (in 2005 anyway) 69.7% of young ukrainians thought (in 2006 anyway) that a strong leader would be a good idea, i.e. someone who “does not have to bother with parliament and elections.” whoa. (click on charts for a LARGER view. got ’em ranked from lowest to highest.)

the last survey of sweden was in 2006 and at that time 15.7% of respondents aged 15-29 thought a strong leader was a good idea. and now it’s up to 26%? five years later? the times they are a’ changin’….

oh, and the swiss — they luv their democracy! (^_^)

Selected countries/samples: Andorra [2005], Bulgaria [2006], Cyprus [2006], Finland [2005], France [2006], Germany [2006], Great Britain [2006], Italy [2005], Moldova [2006], Netherlands [2006], Norway [2007], Poland [2005], Romania [2005], Russian Federation [2006], Serbia [2006], Slovenia [2005], Spain [2007], Sweden [2006], Switzerland [2007], Ukraine [2006]

previously: slavic values?

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26 Comments

  1. I realize you’re not really making a serious argument here, but I doubt this say anything about “Germanics” – I’d bet the percentage yearning for a dictator is higher among Mediterraneans.

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  2. Well, the Romanians are Latins, but their Slavic neighbors also have pretty high numbers.

    oh, and the swiss — they luv their democracy! (^_^)

    And their confederation. A strong man ruler would be very un-Swiss.

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  3. I think a lot of Russians thought democracy was basically silly. Certainly far from all, but a lot.

    I wonder how many of the authoritarian Swedish youth are actually White rightists. Could be a lot of them are either leftist or theocratic foreigners.

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  4. @r.a. – “Well, the Romanians are Latins….”

    so you’re right. i got carried away with all those eastern europeans there…. (~_^)

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  5. @rs – “…or theocratic foreigners.”

    this is the thing. it’s so hard to figure out who feels what nowadays.

    i guess i could sort the data by religion, maybe. (i don’t think they ask about ethnicity.) that might give some clues. tomorrow, maybe. maybe.

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  6. > Well, the Romanians are Latins

    Biologically, though, they probably aren’t very Gallic or Italic. I don’t know what they are. I don’t think the Southern Slavs are all that racially Slavic either, if at all. They’re mostly autochthonic, to one degree or another.

    I would guess that most of the Euros are fairly chthonic. North-Germany people (maybe Celtic speakers) might have been pretty fully replaced by the Germanic expansion, but it happened slowly and I suspect the more distal zones did not see full replacement.

    I have only looked at one study, but it says most of England’s expanse is 50% Dano-Germanic in the patriline (I would guess there is some geographic variation, but who knows). I would guess it’s a good deal less in the matriline, maybe 35%, and the autosomes in between.

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  7. @rs – “I would guess there is some geographic variation, but who knows.”

    absolutely. been to yorkshire (as in york, as in the vikings) and a LOT of the locals look — and act — like danes|scandinavians.

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  8. “…a LOT of the locals look – and act – like danes|scandinavians”. Exactly how does a Scandinavian act? Well, I should know perhaps…I’m one. ;o)

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  9. In much of Europe, Sweden in particular, the “elected” governments seem to be ruling in opposition to the express will of the people, especially with respect to immigration, political correctness and the merger of the national governments and submission to the EU. This must have something to do with the unrest.

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  10. Speaking of Sweden and political correctness, this is what the current “conservative” prime minister of Sweden, Fredrik Reinfeldt, said in 2006: “Only barbarism is purely Swedish. All the development has come from the outside”. I believe he also once remarked that there really is no such thing as a swede, “everyone are swedes!”.

    And Mona Sahlin, the leader of the opposition, the social democratic party, said this in 2002 while visiting a mosque: “You people [the muslims] have a culture, an identity, a history, something that connects you. And what have we got? We only have such silly things as the midsummer festival!”

    Always touching to see leaders who express such a devotion and loyalty to their own tribe, eh?

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  11. @crassus – “Exactly how does a Scandinavian act?”

    don’t take this the wrong way, but ya’ll are — in general, of course — a bit on the dour side. (not that there’s anything wrong with that!) as opposed to sort-of, you know, a more jolly and smiley group like, say, filippinos. even this scandi says that you guys are more reserved, so i don’t think i’m far out in my impression.

    there’s a marked difference in the u.k. if you go between yorkshire (more scandinavian-like) to somewhere like the outer-hebrides in scotland where there’s more “celtic” peoples. lots more joking and singing and jolly times in the outer-hebrides than in york.

    the flip-side, of course, is that — traditionally, anyway — things functioned better in yorkshire (in a more germanic way) than they ever did in the outer-hebrides. (~_^)

    those are my impressions, anyway. having travelled around the u.k.

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  12. “there’s a marked difference in the u.k. if you go between yorkshire (more scandinavian-like) to somewhere like the outer-hebrides in scotland where there’s more ‘celtic’ peoples.”

    h*ll. there’s a marked difference in the U.S. if you go between minnesota and kentucky!

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  13. @luke – “How do you navigate that World Values Survey?”

    it’s not the most intuitive site — and i haven’t found a manual (but i tend to be kinda manual-averse — would rather jump in at the deep end, me — so i haven’t found one).

    i usually start here on the online data analysis page. (oh, look! there is actually a codebook there!) once you click on the “begin analysis” button, you have a couple of options to look at the data from the last wave of suveys (2005-2008) or the previous ones. i think you’ll be able to figure it out from there. (^_^)

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  14. @crassus – “And Mona Sahlin….”

    oh. don’t get me started about her! i’ve read about her and her “swedes don’t have a culture” ideas. talk about crazy! how can any people NOT have a culture. obviously, all peoples have cultures. duh!

    isn’t she also another one of these “people have the right to live wherever they want” people? that’s so far-out, too, from a biological point-of-view (which is the only one that counts, imho), that one doesn’t even know where to start debating the issue with her.

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  15. It’s interesting that you say there are marked differences between people of Scandinavian descendance and non-Scandinavian people in the US and the UK. We stick out! Maybe the thing about us being so dour is not just a stereotype. No wonder this guy is one of our biggest national heroes, right?

    Ah, the look on his face in that picture on the right…he looks as cold as the continents he explored! I love it!

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  16. It’s true that most of Sweden’s culture has some roots in Germany, France, etc: that’s natural when Sweden only has 10 million people. It’s more like a province of a Germany than it is a Germany. Scandinavia produced Arrhenius, Kierkegaard, Ibsen, and half of Niels Bohr who was half-Ashkenazi, but naturally more populous Germany, England, Russia produced much more art and science. As did the less populous Ashkenazim produce more great science and about the same amount of great art than Scandinavia.

    There also wasn’t that much going on in Scandinavia by say 1750, that goes into the high canon. But except maybe for architecture that’s really true everywhere outside France and England, to whom the early modern centuries belonged (1500-1730ish), along with Italy and Holland to some extent. Not much influential stuff afoot back then among Slavs, or Germans except for Copernicus (who might be partly Polish, but definitely substantially German), and Bach who sort of starts off German high culture circa 1725 and eventually hands the torch to Mozart, Goethe, Hölderlin, etc. Friedrich der Große didn’t have that much to be proud of in his day, from Germanophone lands. He worshiped only France and was (initially) elated to import Mr Voltaire.

    Euler also got it going in the early-ish 1700s, and then there was Gauss soon after – I’m not sure math had all that much prestige, though. Most of the other early advanced math was done by Frenchman and of course Newton.

    Super-oldtime titans like Descartes, Bacon, Pascal, Moliere, Tallis, Shakespeare, Donne, Newton, Vermeer, Leeuenhoek were all French, English, Dutch except for Copernicus. All the other modern European cultures put their own stamp on things from out of their own fundamental creativity, very much so, but they imported the fundamentals from France, England, Copernicus. Which in turn were filled from the Renaissance, the classical Greco-roman world, and the High-medieval Christian culture. I think Russia had an additional major source in Byzantine and Ottoman things. Roman developments were Greek in their fundamental origin – and Greece in turn, at least according to some, was deeply informed by Babylon, Egypt (I think), and the like.

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  17. @RS
    Maybe in a few hundred years from now…it is this guy who will be considered the first highly modern man in his attitutdes:

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  18. @crassus – “Ah, the look on his face in that picture on the right…he looks as cold as the continents he explored! I love it!”

    heh! that is a great/funny photo. and you will see people with expressions like that in yorkshire. (~_^) (i mean actual yorkshiremen, of course — not referring to the more recent migrants there.)

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  19. @rs – “It’s true that most of Sweden’s culture has some roots in Germany, France, etc: that’s natural when Sweden only has 10 million people.”

    sure. but the sorts of things you’re talking about there amount to high culture and, yeah, you need bigger populations (with the requisite high-ish iq, of course) to produce any amount of high culture.

    but mona sahlin, iirc, was comparing swedish culture with the culture of recent muslim immigrants who, in sweden, are what? — pakistani and maybe iranian (i’m not exactly sure). somali? and, sure, there was some high culture produced by muslims during the caliphate centuries, but i think sahlin and her ilk are just struck by the fact that these newcomers have a different culture than hers. she’s sees spicey pakistani food — kebabs and marsalas and whatever — and women in silk clothing and thinks they have culture where we don’t. but that’s just because she’s used to swedish culture — she takes it for granted, i think.

    of course there’s plenty of ordinary, traditional swedish culture! from saint lucy’s day to dala horses (i’ve been to minnesota!) to twined knitting (i’m a big knitter, btw, altho i have yet to try this technique). the swedes even have their own, funny, traditional clothes. (^_^)

    mona sahlin (and her ilk) is just too pc to realize that her people’s (ordinary) culture is just as rich and just as REAL as pakistanis.

    Reply

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