Archives for posts with tag: housekeeping

links don’t appear in this backup post. but i’ve got them in the blog backup files — so if you really want a link from an old open thread comment, just ask. (^_^)

JayMan
01/02/2013 at 5:57 AM (Edit)

Hey, looks like someone at the New York Times has been reading your blog: ;)

When Latvia’s economy first crumbled, it wrestled with many of the same problems faced since by other troubled European nations: a growing hole in government finances, a banking crisis, falling competitiveness and big debts — though most of these were private rather than public as in Greece.

Now its abrupt turn for the better has put a spotlight on a ticklish question for those who look to orthodox economics for a solution to Europe’s wider economic woes: Instead of obeying any universal laws of economic gravity, do different people respond differently to the same forces?

Used to Hardship, Latvia Accepts Austerity, and Its Pain Eases – NYTimes.com
hbd chick
01/02/2013 at 7:03 AM (Edit)

@jayman – “‘Instead of obeying any universal laws of economic gravity, do different people respond differently to the same forces?’”

different peoples is different! (~_^)

hbd filtering into the mainstream? maybe. wouldn’t THAT be cool. (^_^)
JayMan
01/12/2013 at 7:27 AM (Edit)

Ah, damn… ;p:

White House politely declines Death Star petition, citing $850 quadrillion cost
hbd chick
01/12/2013 at 8:58 AM (Edit)

@jayman – awww, come on! after all — $850 quadrillion would only increase the deficit slightly more than it is now! and think of all the stormtrooper jobs that would be created! and anyway — couldn’t we just pay for it with an $850 quadrillion coin? (~_^)
hbd chick
01/12/2013 at 9:00 AM (Edit)

“In an official response entitled ‘this isn’t the petition response you’re looking for’….”

heh. (^_^)
JayMan
01/15/2013 at 6:07 PM (Edit)

@HBD Chick:

You’ve previously remarked that the fact that people don’t farm anymore has something to do with the denial of heritable differences in the West. Well, see this story:

Big Farm, Big Family, Healthy Kids – ABC News

Check out the video at the bottom of the link. Notice the answer the farmer whips right out to the reporter’s question about his “secret” (around 0:32).

This isn’t the first time an ABC News interviewee has given a similar answer, only for it to be downplayed in the story.
LInton Herbert
01/16/2013 at 4:41 AM (Edit)

A Jayman. “Check out the video at the bottom of the link” Wow. Thanks.
hbd chick
01/16/2013 at 5:24 AM (Edit)

@jayman – “Notice the answer the farmer whips right out to the reporter’s question about his ‘secret’ (around 0:32).”

good genes! (~_^)

(i love those PIGS! (^_^) )
Nelson
01/17/2013 at 6:07 AM (Edit)

It is finished…

HBD: An Abbreviated History of Quisqueya and the Rise of Today’s Dominicans (and Haitians) :: Concourse Expressions

…but since it’s part of my Hispanic HBD series, mayhap it’s more appropriate to say it is started… ;-)
Greying Wanderer
01/17/2013 at 10:40 AM (Edit)

Something i came across on teh interwebs

I don’t know how representaive that is of the average heights at the time but if it was can you imagine what a regiment of Brits or Yanks must have looked like to an average Japanese?

I think the psychological effect of height differences in the history of the euro expansion – and possibly at other times in history also – may be significant.
JayMan
01/19/2013 at 12:40 PM (Edit)

Food, health, and HBD:

See this: Fat Head » The Spanish Paradox

Now, apparently, Tom Naughton, who made a documentary called Fat Head criticizing the conventional wisdom about diet, obesity, and health, produced an excellent post with a great table of the cardiovascular death rates in Europe and selected other countries (mostly Euro-offshoots). This seems to clearly weaken the association between diet and health according to the conventional wisdom, but what else jumps out at you?

Yes, notice that death rates of related countries are similar. Slavs the highest, then Celtic countries (nicely separates the UK for us), then Germanics/Anglos, then Mediterranean countries, including France, at the bottom (East Asian countries seem more scattered however).

These data suggest that genetics might be playing a role. Hence, I tweeted it. Naughton responded, and see the Twitter exchange.

He seems to be stuck on the area of intermarriage between the English and the French. Not only was I skeptical of the extent that that occurred, the genetic data reveal that they are distinct populations. For some reason, he can’t seem to get that part though. I know you’ve had similar problems.

It would seem to be prudent to compare the Quebecois with British Canadians, even though that would have its limits since the Quebecois aren’t representative of all French…
JayMan
01/19/2013 at 12:42 PM (Edit)

Hmmm, seems my post may have ended up in the spam filter….
Big Nose Kate
02/19/2013 at 12:05 AM (Edit)

@ HBDC “are you Hungarian?”
I was thinking about BNK and that got me to thinking about unrequited love and I decided that top of the list must be Wuthering Heights. So then I started thinking about the opposite, enduring love, and decided that top of that list could well be Mr and Mrs Beaufort. [I could probably put my parents on that list too and, coincidentally, their wedding cake was decorated with one red and one white rose, coz that's where they hail from.] How interesting :) :)
LInton Herbert
02/19/2013 at 4:26 AM (Edit)

@BNK “top of the list must be Wuthering Heights” Ah yes, Wuthering Heights. My mother said the Lintons probably hailed from Yorkshire. The child “Linton” so far as I know is the only other first name Linton on record. He died young because he lacked “LIFE FORCE.” You’d say that about in LInton kin as well until the spit hits the fan. Then just when everybody else gets paniced or depressed they wake up, cheer up, and start fixing things. Enduring love? Oh, yes.
Off topic, but the other LInton doesn’t come up for debate much.
JayMan
02/20/2013 at 7:18 AM (Edit)

Here you go. I think this one would be near and dear to you…

‘Star Wars’ Needs a New Approach to Gender—Not Just More Women – Noah Berlatsky – The Atlantic
hbd chick
02/20/2013 at 2:23 PM (Edit)

@jayman – “Here you go. I think this one would be near and dear to you…”

i know. i saw that. i really hope that don’t add more heroines just to have an equal number of women in the new movies. *facepalm* i mean, they already ruined those prequels (wait. what?! prequels?! what prequels? who said that?!!)…. (~_^)
Big Nose Kate
02/22/2013 at 5:22 AM (Edit)

I’ve just been reading over some of my favorite bits of your blog.

I’m sure you don’t need my advice but I would really like a longer ‘recent comments’ so, I was thinking how that could be achieved.

Is the tag cloud a must-have? How vital are the categories?
It would be cool if the ‘mating patterns in Europe series’ started under Search in the mid-column.

on a more intrusive note – I think these three sections
don’t miss
relatedness matters
family types

encapsulate the background theory; genetic and socio-structural.

Could these be condensed into 2 batches labelled with explicit titles? – relatedness matters and family types are good titles but, for people who aren’t familiar with your hyp. could you perhaps be a bit more elucidating?

Equally, could posts like ‘theories’ be labelled more specifically? – your comments on that page are really great.

I’m almost inclined to suggest the ‘updates’ would be better placed before ‘recent posts’.

Or…………….. maybe I’m not your target market.
Big Nose Kate
02/22/2013 at 5:32 AM (Edit)

@LH “so far as I know is the only other first name Linton”

I didn’t think of that – I don’t know the book, but I think the story isn’t about class or nationality. I think the Bronte sisters sat around pondering the masculine and feminine principles and whether it was really possible to get the brooding male _and_ the big house. Austen’s heroines managed better. Patrick Bronte outlived his whole family by decades, so weird.
JayMan
02/22/2013 at 7:53 AM (Edit)

See this:

5 Insane Theories About Why We Haven’t Discovered Alien Life | Cracked.com.

These are actually not all that insane. Some of these are more likely than others. Indeed, I disagree with the notion that the existence of the human species (and hence, by extension, all technological species of the universe) is finite, or at least respect to the universe itself. I see no a priori reason that necessitates this (despite the current situation of the world).

But, the main point I wanted to call attention to here is this. Note how HBD is filtering into the mainstream:

hey have literally let entire civilizations obliterate themselves for the sake of the Prime Directive. This is an actual theory about extraterrestrial life that scientists call the “Zoo hypothesis”, which suggests that super advanced aliens do exist, but they refrain from contacting Earth in order to keep from interrupting our natural evolution and development. Essentially, the aliens are content to sit back and watch until we reach their level, and only then will they share their time-traveling rocket boot technology with us.

What a bunch of shitheads, right? Well, maybe not. Charity, no matter how well-intentioned, can backfire in unpredictable ways. For example, there have been a number of projects to increase the standard of living in Ethiopia, which is a country literally famous for being impoverished. One such project involved installing water taps in Ethiopian households. While this had several incredibly beneficial effects, most notably dropping the infant mortality rate, it ultimately contributed to household shortages. More children means more family members to support, and those water taps weren’t spitting out any extra money — so essentially, the children were surviving infancy only to grow up starving. By solving one problem, another equally devastating problem was created.

LInton Herbert
02/23/2013 at 4:39 AM (Edit)

@Jayman “I disagree with the notion that the existence of the human species (and hence, by extension, all technological species of the universe) is finite, ”

You know, I’ve been thinking about that. Just for argument, suppose I’m right that the limitation of mating pool size is a natural law. If you wonder why, do check out nobabies.net and look at December 21 last year. As you will see from the arguments there, there is no reason this phenomenon should be peculiar to earth or even to carbon based life forms. It’s as fundamental as evolution.

So let’s say there is a high tech species in the Andromeda galaxy about equal to us. They must be facing extinction because their technology offers a huge social pool just like we have. Hence they will never arrive any more than we will go there. If there were the equivalent of I there, screaming hoarsely that this is important, he would be ignored. I don’t know of any law of nature that requires that, but I sure have a lot of experience with it. Maybe if you can figure that one out, they can do it in Andromeda as well and the future becons us to the stars. You will have proved your point.
Nelson
02/24/2013 at 12:27 AM (Edit)

New post: Hispanic Genomic Diversity, Part I :: Concourse Expressions

Question: I know you blogged about certain Europeans with African/Middle-Eastern descent; ’twas wondering which of your posts specifically mentioned ‘em since, in my research, I found that some Hispanics possessed certain chromosomal haplotypes traced to North Africa and the Middle East…
LInton Herbert
02/24/2013 at 4:23 AM (Edit)

@Nelson. “in my research, I found that some Hispanics possessed certain chromosomal haplotypes traced to North Africa and the Middle East” I used to be a skeptic on this one, but there is (kind of) a band of Rh negative running from the Kurd area and the Sudan more or less to the mediterranian, across north Africa and up the west coast of Europe as far as Scotland and Bergen and megalithic archetecture has been found from the Sudan up through egypt, Malta, west coast europe, up to Scotland and the Faroe Islands, then aruably over to the western Hemisphere although that was a lot later. It seems plausible that somebody moved somewhere, but in which direction I really don’t have a clue. When I read about it, it is just assumed that the movement had to be out of Africa apparently because that’s scripture.
Nelson
02/24/2013 at 7:12 PM (Edit)

@LInton: Interesting; thanks for the tidbits.
K
04/14/2013 at 10:27 AM (Edit)

Ms. HBD chick!!
>
> Can a devoted reader from azerbaijan ask you a question? You are acquainted
> with people who have studied race differences in intelligence. As you
> probably know Azerbaijan is in the temperate zone and has an average IQ of 90, and as such is incapable of building a technological/commercial civilization.
> I wish to fix this, O great HBD chick!! how unfair that your Caucasoid ancestors
> moved to the arctic and mine didn’t!!!
> Can you consult your chrystal ball for me and see if there is anything at all that I can do to increase the IQ in my country to about…oh I don’t know…something like
> 175.You see, we also all want to be hyper intelligent aspie bloggers like you, and not gormless sheep grazers. We will then be able to build a moon base — complete with kebab stands and super-smart molecular biologist belly-dancers. Also, if any information comes your way about solutions to excessive hirsutism, please inform me, we are rather famous for having problems with that: http://www.memes.at/fun/811
Justthisguy
04/14/2013 at 9:36 PM (Edit)

Uh-oh, ‘chick. You have become semi-famous on the Internet and have thus attracted smartasses which come from the woodwork out, like Gnurrs. I hope you don’t have to hire bodyguards. You have mentioned having a large family. I hope and trust that they like you and will look out for you.

I feel fortunate that I am nobody in particular, and nobody cares enough about whether I live or die to try to influence my existence in either direction.
JayMan
04/22/2013 at 7:41 AM (Edit)

You know, I thinking we should call European outbreeders “Germanic” rather than “Northwestern European”, because I find that the latter term leads to confusion like this.

Often, when I say “NW European” to critics, one of the first responses I get is “what about the Scots/Irish – they’re NW Europeans?” While that’s technically true, it’s not clear that the historically outbreeding NW Europeans generally excludes those in the “Celtic fringe”.

Of course, “Germanic” runs into trouble in northern Iberia and northern Italy, since I’m not quite sure how “Germanic” those areas are.

On a semi-related note, about those clannish Irish:

Muslims Find a Welcoming Home in Famously Catholic Ireland – Megan O’Neil – The Atlantic
hbd chick
04/22/2013 at 11:51 AM (Edit)

@jayman – “You know, I thinking we should call European outbreeders ‘Germanic’ rather than ‘Northwestern European’, because I find that the latter term leads to confusion like this.”

yeah, i agree, “northwest european” is not ideal because, like you say, people start thinking about the highland scots and the irish and that’s just … wrong!

“germanic” is probably better, but then idiots like those guys over @roissy’s might not realize that the french (and belgians) would be included in that. that’s why i’ve been using nw europeans — or my own “core europeans” — but who ever heard of that term? (~_^)

@jayman – “…about those clannish Irish….”

yeah, not so clannish anymore!

keep in mind that some amount of english people also settled in ireland (see also here), but i have no idea how many. i think a lot of the settlement did take place in and around dublin, though. i really have no idea of the numbers, however, so i don’t know how much of an effect they might’ve had on the population.
LInton Herbert
04/22/2013 at 12:19 PM (Edit)

@hbd chick ” i think a lot of the settlement did take place in and around dublin” I heard once they put up an fence around the settlement. Anything outside was considered uncool or “beyond the pale.”
hbd chick
04/22/2013 at 12:23 PM (Edit)

@linton – “I heard once they put up an fence around the settlement.”

absolutely! keep out the barbarians. (~_^)
LInton Herbert
04/22/2013 at 12:50 PM (Edit)

@hbd chick “keep out the barbarians.” Yep. Gotta love them outbreeding English. :o)
bleach
04/22/2013 at 1:00 PM (Edit)

W.E.I.R.D. would be a good substitute for NW European, although I don’t like the fact that it emphasizes institutions over heredity, it does give the notion how unusual the Western social/psychological mores are to mankind
JayMan
04/23/2013 at 2:56 PM (Edit)

You need to see this. How (some) liberals react to my advice:

More Words, Deeper Hole – Count the problematic assertions!

“The Inevitable Triumph of Conservativism the TFR way!”

Apparently a liberal journal site is discussing my blog post (Another reminder…) which advises them to have children to maintain liberalism in the future. The response is interesting, to say the least…

This of course is heavily relies on your own work to explain just why NW Euro liberals are liberal…
hbd chick
04/23/2013 at 4:48 PM (Edit)

@jayman – “You need to see this. How (some) liberals react to my advice….”

well, now my head hurts. maybe banging it against this brick wall over here would make it feel better. (~_^)

i dunno how you manage to “discuss” things with people like that. i don’t have the stamina!
Elijah Armstrong
04/23/2013 at 5:01 PM (Edit)

I like the guy who flatly asserts that “there is zero evidence that intelligence is heritable.”

As hbd chick implied, you are wasting your time with these idiots.
JayMan
04/24/2013 at 10:10 PM (Edit)

Even the megalopolis apartment complexes in Hong Kong were based on the courtyard house:

Mapping the Horrors of Hong Kong’s ‘Lawless’ Walled City – Cool Graphic Thing – Curbed National
Big Nose Kate
05/22/2013 at 12:52 PM (Edit)

Hello anybody there? Woolwich murder – google if you haven’t heard. Kate
hbd chick
05/22/2013 at 3:09 PM (Edit)

@kate – “Hello anybody there? Woolwich murder – google if you haven’t heard. Kate”

i see it. jesus. =/

where the f*ck are these guys from? i mean, what’s their ethnicity? they’re black, not afghani or something.

isn’t it just great that the british population has been de-armed.
Greying Wanderer
05/22/2013 at 4:04 PM (Edit)

“where the f*ck are these guys from?”

they look west african – possibly west indians converted and radicalized in jail.
hbd chick
05/22/2013 at 5:01 PM (Edit)

@grey – “possibly west indians converted and radicalized in jail.”

terrific. =/
Justthisguy
05/26/2013 at 1:47 AM (Edit)

As a professing Christian, I deplore the doing of murder. As a professing Christian, I also don’t mind too much the shooting dead of people who are about to murder one, if that’s the only way to stop them. Sometimes, that’s the only way to stop them.

I do hope and trust that hbdchick has armed herself with a small but effective pocket pistol and takes it with her every time she goes out.

It would be even better if such were legal in the jurisdiction in which she lives. I am betting that that is not so. I think she should do it anyway.
hbd chick
05/26/2013 at 11:37 AM (Edit)

@justthisguy – “I do hope and trust that hbdchick has armed herself with a small but effective pocket pistol and takes it with her every time she goes out.”

never fear! i’m a big fan/supporter of the second amendment. (~_^)
teageegeepea
06/02/2013 at 9:49 AM (Edit)

Tyler Cowen linked to this on the high student debt (despite free tuition) in Sweden resulting from kids moving out and paying their own rent:

http://qz.com/85017/college-in-sweden-is-free-but-students-still-have-a-ton-of-debt-how-can-that-be/

That in turn linked to an interesting paper by Reher on family co-residence patterns in Europe which are divided north/south rather than along the Hajnal line. The Roman empire, Germanic norms and Muslim/Oriental culture is all said to play a role at some point, but the earliest correlation they mention is kids leaving the house to work as servants. Sounds like the sort of thing that would be up your alley.
hbd chick
06/02/2013 at 2:57 PM (Edit)

@tggp – “That in turn linked to an interesting paper by Reher on family co-residence patterns in Europe which are divided north/south rather than along the Hajnal line.”

thanks! i have seen the reher paper before thanks to m.g. (from the now closed down “those who can see” blog =( — come back to us, m.g.!), but i should look at it again. definitely up my alley! (^_^)
Nelson
06/09/2013 at 12:41 PM (Edit)

Well, hbd* chick, looks like you’re about to get your wish – M.G. (Those Who Can See) is back! (I also tweeted about it.)
hbd chick
06/09/2013 at 12:52 PM (Edit)

@nelson – “M.G. (Those Who Can See) is back!”

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(^_^)
Justthisguy
06/21/2013 at 10:10 PM (Edit)

I just got notified by email of a very nasty troll comment on this thread. I don’t see it here. Thanks for that, ‘chick!
Tim Ossman
07/09/2013 at 8:06 AM (Edit)

This new theory of human evolution WILL be the most amazing thing you read today!

http://www.macroevolution.net/human-origins.html

(Spoiler: Chimp + Pig = Human)
LInton Herbert
07/11/2013 at 12:37 PM (Edit)

@Tim Ossman “This new theory of human evolution WILL be the most amazing thing you read today!” Wow. You are quite right. Amazing. I like it. Can’t give it more than an open mind, but it’s a lot to think about. At last somebody is thinking as far outside the box as I am and is totally original. I shall certainly write to him.
bleach
07/12/2013 at 8:34 PM (Edit)

I recently attended a family reunion of sorts, first time in many years…. two of my first cousins blatantly hit on me for several days, one of them even told me I was the most handsome man she knows…. unfortunately one of them is married and the other lives far away, so what should I do? did I blow it by not seducing my hot cuz? Linton Herbert, please advise. we are Scotch-Irish and the single one is my mother’ brother’s daughter if that matters.
LInton Herbert
07/13/2013 at 4:25 AM (Edit)

@bleach “Linton Herbert, please advise” Of course I can’t actually advise anybody about anthing except my medical specialty, which this isn’t. But on an friendly, casual basis I’d say you are in great shape. The married one is obvioulsy off limits. But at least you know she’s married. I have not always known when I was dating a woman. As for the other, long distances are less of an issue than they once were. I think there is a real question as to whether first cousin is a bit too close. I would only use that in retrospect, if it never goes anywhere you can just say “oh well, first cousin.” Can’t lose. As far as how to proceed I think the usual course is to blab to everybody that knows both of you. Don’t need to ask for an opinion. That you’ll get no matter what.
That’s the best I can do. All the best luck.
JayMan
07/13/2013 at 8:50 AM (Edit)

@HBD Chick:

You’ve made it to the final frontier. See the comments:

Aliens: Angels or Demons? (Space Exploration II) | Social Evolution Forum
hbd chick
07/13/2013 at 9:50 AM (Edit)

@jayman – “You’ve made it to the final frontier. See the comments.”

hbd chick iiiinnnnnnnn spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaccccccceeeeeeeeee!!!! (~_^)

awesome! thanks for the plug. (^_^)

you know, i have to say that i’m with hawking on this — QUIT trying to contact the aliens, ’cause that could go really wrong! =/ (the movies ‘alien’ and ‘aliens’ left a big impression on me. (~_^) )

i’d love to find them, of course … but in some sort of stealthy way so that they didn’t know we were here.
mixedraced
07/16/2013 at 7:41 AM (Edit)

@hbd chick.

How do you feel about mulattoes?

Also how do you feel about mulattocentrism/centrists? (i’m one, but not racist)
hbd chick
07/16/2013 at 2:06 PM (Edit)

@mixedraced – “How do you feel about mulattoes?”

i feel about mulattoes — and any mixed ethnic/race people — they way i feel about all humans. people are people! i take each individual as they come. (^_^)

@mixedraced – “Also how do you feel about mulattocentrism/centrists?”

never thought about it. i didn’t even know there was such a thing as “mulattocentrism.” guess it shouldn’t surprise me — pretty much all (probably all) groups of people are “-centric” in their own fashion.
elijahlarmstrong
07/16/2013 at 10:35 PM (Edit)

I am not an expert on kin selection. What do you think of GNXP’s criticisms of the Rushton-Harpending model of ethnocentrism?
hbd chick
07/16/2013 at 10:48 PM (Edit)

@elijah – “I am not an expert on kin selection. What do you think of GNXP’s criticisms of the Rushton-Harpending model of ethnocentrism?”

are you thinking of/referring to something written by razib recently or some older stuff on the old blog (i’d have to have a read — or re-read maybe — of either to see what i think of it now)?
elijahlarmstrong
07/16/2013 at 10:50 PM (Edit)

http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/004046.html

hbd chick
07/16/2013 at 10:52 PM (Edit)

@elijah – thanks! i’ll have a look at it in the a.m. (^_^) (or more likely, the p.m. (~_^) )
hbd chick
07/17/2013 at 9:00 PM (Edit)

@elijah – “What do you think of GNXP’s criticisms of the Rushton-Harpending model of ethnocentrism?”

i couldn’t find those criticisms by gnxp that you mentioned — the link you gave seems to go to a critique of tim wise and the question of “do races exist?”, yada, yada, yada — so, instead i’ll just give you some of my thoughts on the matter. these aren’t my final thoughts, by any means — i’m still trying to work it out, too!

the centerpiece of this whole discussion is, of course, hamilton’s inclusive fitness theory. once you understand/accept that, then the question becomes: can ethnocentrism be selected for given how (we think) inclusive fitness works?

unfortunately for me, i s*ck at math, so i have to take the word of the population geneticists on this, and most of them (presumably the gnxp boys, too) present arguments re. the evolution of ethnocentrism along the lines of what greg cochran said here. and i get what he’s saying there, and i largely agree with it … but, of course, i feel as though he (and the rest of them) are overlooking the effects of inbreeding/outbreeding.

all populations don’t have the same kinship coefficients, and you would think that altruistic behaviors would have a greater genetic pay off in inbreeding societies rather than outbreeding ones (and that is what the modelling seems to show). because there are greater inclusive fitness payoffs in inbreeding societies, i think that some strong selection pressures for very altruistic/clannish individuals can arise in those populations. then it seems that you wind up with divided societies in which every clan is at each other clan’s throats — the arabs being a wonderful example.

greg cochran, in that post i linked to above, thinks that they got this way because they had the altruism bred out of them (through millennia of fighting for large empires) and, so, only have really close familial altruism left. i think it’s just the opposite. i think that they’ve had the really close familial altruism bred into them via at least a couple of millennia of really close inbreeding (fbd marriage). the arabs, then, have a hard time being ethnocentric at all, under their traditional circumstances (i.e. living in tribes), because they are so genetically divided (see henry harpending’s graph of druze kin relatedness here) AND because they have so many “genes for familal altruism” (whatever they are). imo, middling inbred — or even very outbred — populations might have a better chance of being ethnocentric, because they would probably not be so hung up on their own extended families/clans.
_____

circumstances matter, though, and people’s behaviors can be manipulated and their innate feeling can be misapplied in the wrong circumstances — i mean, we might be “programmed” to behave in certain ways (eg. clannish) thanks to natural selection, but those behaviors might’ve been selected for in a certain environment. remove an individual from his “natural” environment and place him in a new one, and his behaviors might be mismatched. for example, the ottoman turks took some very clannish individuals (out of the caucasus region and the balkans) and turned them into very loyal, hard-fighting soldiers (the janissaries) — loyal to the turks, that is. so, clannish behaviors can be used (and abused), if you can get at individuals at a young enough age. i think the tsarnaev brothers are a sort-of example of this — they were removed from their “natural” habitat (their chechen clans living and fighting in the mountains), and they searched around — and were probably influenced by others — for a purpose in life — and they applied their clannish behaviors towards a greater chechen/muslim cause. they became ethnocentric thanks to changing circumstances.
_____

having said all that, henry harpending and frank salter have (if i’ve understood it correctly) a very interesting idea which they’ve presented in a recent paper (which i really ought to blog about one of these days), and that is that, given The 10,000 Year Explosion — i.e. that human evolution has sped up in the last 10,000 or so years due to the huge population increases — there might’ve been greater chances for ethnocentrism to develop because there were more people and more populations interacting. you can especially imagine this working in the fertile crescent where there’s been rather large-ish populations now — city-states, etc. — for many millennia now. it’s an interesting idea — and i need to think about it some more.
_____

rushton definitely found a lot of interesting and good evidence showing that people are attracted to individuals like themselves, presumably genetically similar individuals, although that would work better in a traditional, homogeneous society rather than in modern, multi-ethnic ones. but i don’t think that his genetic similarity theory can explain ethnocentrism. i think it’s more complicated than that, but what the right answer(s) is, i don’t know. the jury’s still out!
elijahlarmstrong
07/17/2013 at 9:25 PM (Edit)

Sorry – wrong link. Here is a better one: http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/10/ethnic-genetic-interests-revisited.php
hbd chick
07/20/2013 at 8:03 PM (Edit)

@elijah – “Sorry – wrong link. Here is a better one.”

ah. davidb’s discussions on salter’s book. i remember those.

i never understood why davidb bothered to write so much about it — from a technical, scientific point-of-view, that is — when salter’s book is a political, not a biological, treatise. davidb acknowledged as much:

“It is essential to understand that Salter is *not* presenting a biological theory of how people have evolved, how they will evolve in future, or why they behave in the way they do. [Note 2] As Salter puts it himself: ’the present work is not primarily a theory of human behavior, but of interests. Rather than being a work of explanation, this is mainly an exercise in political theory dealing with what people are able to do if they want to behave adaptively (p.85)… my main goal in this chapter is not to describe how people actually behave. Rather, I explore how individuals would behave if they were attempting to preserve their genetic interests (p.257)’….

“Note 2: Although Salter frequently refers to W. D. Hamilton’s theory of inclusive fitness, he does not claim that this explains interactions between distant ethnic groups: ’From the point of view of Hamiltonian theory, the adaptiveness of altruism is dependent on local, not global, circumstances (p.149).”

so, salter and davidb are, as far as i can ascertain, (probably) in agreement about whether or not ETHNOcentric feelings can evolve (unlikely — see my comments above).

however, frank salter would like people to at least contemplate political decisions along ethnic lines, whereas davidb really seems to not like that idea at all.

and never the ‘twain shall meet, prolly.

those discussions were more of a political one than anything else, afaict.
elijahlarmstrong
07/20/2013 at 9:04 PM (Edit)

But you did say above that ethnocentrism pays off genetically, that it can evolve under Hamiltonian circumstances, etc. davidb would disagree.

Out of curiosity, do you yourself subscribe to Salter’s prescriptions?
hbd chick
07/20/2013 at 9:29 PM (Edit)

@elijah – “But you did say above that ethnocentrism pays off genetically, that it can evolve under Hamiltonian circumstances….”

no. according to the population geneticists — and i’m forced to take their word on this (’cause i’ve been too lazy to brush up on my limited algebraic skills and try to work it out for myself) — ETHNOcentrism does not pay off genetically. or, rather, the genetic payoffs wouldn’t result in ethnocentrism (that’s the way to look at it). most people in your ethnic group are not closely enough related to you for the genetic payoff to work. as greg cochran says — the math doesn’t work. apparently (and i can kinda see this) after ca. first cousins, the genetic payoff is so small that it would be hard to get altruism (in this case, ethnocentrism) to evolve under those circumstances.

my objection to what these population geneticists have to say is that, i think, they’re overlooking that some groups wind up having more intense altruism feelings because they’re inbred. and otoh very outbred groups seem to wind up with strong universalistic feelings, but that shouldn’t be confused with ethnocentrism. such universalistic sentiments can get directed in all sorts of ways.

@elijah – “Out of curiosity, do you yourself subscribe to Salter’s prescriptions?”

i haven’t read salter’s book, only a million or so blogposts on it. (~_^)

i’m what i like to call a natural conservative — i’m not a religious one or anything like that — i just think it’s a good idea to exercise caution before changing things. it’s not that i don’t like change (bring on the robots!) — i just think one ought to think and think twice before making BIG changes.

if western civilization (which i happen to like) is somehow connected to the natures of the peoples who built it (i think it is), then i think we should be cautious before making BIG changes to that population. for me, that means mass immigration.

wrt things like inter-ethnic or inter-racial marriage, i could care less. i don’t have any negative gut reactions to such pairings — in fact, they typically bring out the inner-hippie in me, and i wind up saying things like “well, it’s not like there’s too much love in the world!” (~_^) and it’s not as if the influx of new genes into a population is always a bad thing either.

otoh, if tomorrow the entire white world wanted to marry with non-whites (that includes east asians), i’d ask them to think twice about it. i wouldn’t advocate stopping everybody, but i’d ask them to inform themselves and make sure that they’re sure about what they’d be doing.
Benjamin David Steele
07/26/2013 at 1:01 PM (Edit)

@hbd chick – I guess you’re on vacation or something at the moment. Let me leave you a gift here for when you return.

I’ve recently started reading some books on African ethnicities and cultures as they relate to the slavery-driven African diaspora. My studies have only begun, but I’ve already learned much.

There were many different ethnic groups that had large numbers enslaved. They were a diverse lot: Polytheists, Muslims, Christians, tribes, kingdoms, matrilineals, patrilineals, miners, dye makers, weavers, architects, artists, th highly educated, etc.

For various reasons, slaves of the same ethnic groups clustered in the same places. Partly, this was just about transportation routes from and the closest ports to particular slave trade locations in Africa. Also, slaveholders often sought out particular ethnicities. There is the reason of the skills that certain ethnicities were specialized in. Plus, it could be easier to manage slaves who shared the sae language, a language the slaveholder might be familiar with.

An even more basic reason was in socializing African captives to the life of slavery. For example, the Igbo were known for being prone to suicide. Meeting other Igbos that were slaves was a great comfort to them. In general, slaves often sought out other slaves of their ethnicity, even traveling to nearby plantations which wasn’t uncommon.

Slaves didn’t give up their ethnic identities easily or quickly. Generations after being enslaved, slaves would still give their children Traditional African names. Similar to the Irish and Italians, distress made them cling to their ethnic identities all the more strongly.

There appears to be a lot of recent research showing how African ethnic groups influenced the societies they became apart of. For example, 18th century South Carolina was majority black and they were often the ones raising the white children. A large part of white Southern culture originates from Africa. It really is a creole culture or so the argument goes.

The reason I was thinking of you as I was reading is that I occasionally noticed references to family and social structures. Enslaved Africans seem like a good case group for exploring how culture gets passed on and transformed as family and social structures change. You might be able to glean some useful info from the following books:

The African Diaspora
Patrick Manning

Diasporic Africa
Michael Gomez

Slavery and African Ethnicities in the Americas
Gwendolyn Midlo Hall

Africans in Colonial Louisiana
Gwendlyn Midlo Hall

The Akan Diaspora
Kwasi Konadu

Black Rice
Judith A. Carney

Strange New Land
Peter Wood

Black Majority
Peter Wood

The World They Made Together
Mechal Sobel

Reading African into American Literature
Keith Cartwright
LInton Herbert
07/26/2013 at 4:52 PM (Edit)

@ Benjamin David Steele “For example, 18th century South Carolina was majority black and they were often the ones raising the white children.” I had ancestors there at that time and, yes, that sounds right to me.
Benjamin David Steele
07/26/2013 at 6:15 PM (Edit)

@Linton Herbert – One of the things researchers have discovered is that rice cultivation developed in Africa independently of Asia. It was African rice plants and techniques that were imported to South Carolina and Georga. Thi required the importation of slaves from specific ethnic groups that grew rice and with them came their rice-growing social structure, culture and customs.

BTW I came across some other details about the Igbo. Besides suicde, they were alos prone to run away. This made them less attractive to many slaveholders, but there was another trait that made them more valuable. The Igbo were quite the exogamous bunch. I guess that meant that they weren’t picky about their mates, even if no other Igbo were around. This led them to have lots of kids
Benjamin David Steele
07/26/2013 at 9:38 PM (Edit)

The book I’m reading right now is Hall’s Slavery and African Ethnicities in the Americas. Here are two choice bits:

“Igbo did not adjust to working in large slave gangs growing sugar or cotton. According to Michael Mullin, South Carolina slave owners considered Igbo unsuitable for rice production. This could explain why they were not appreciated in South Carolina, where rice was the major export crop, and were more appreciated in Virginia, where tobacco reigned.”
Kindle Location 1902

“In regions like the Chesapeake, where natural reproduction of the slave population was a high priority, the Igbo were probably not “refuse” slaves but actually preferred. Because of the independent positon and stance of Igbo women in Africa, their willingness to mate outside their ethnicity and to bear and raise children, their identification with small, local places, and their attachment to the land where their first child was born, they were well equipped to establish new communities on small estates where clear hierarchical structures were weak or absent. African Americans are likely to be descended directly from African women via the female line because they have many more white male than white female ancestors. In the United States, African mothers were reasonably likely to be igbo or Wolof. [ . . . ] quoting from Dike: “Perhaps the overriding genius of the Ibos, Ibibios, Ijaws, Ekoi, and Efiks and their political institutions lay in their extraordinary powers of adaptability [ . . . ]”
Kindle Location 1917

Isn’t that fascinating?

Two things strike me. First, Virginia ended up having uch a surplus of slaves, along with a surplus of citizens, that Virginia did more than its fair share in populating the rest of the South. Second, what makes the Igbo so unique, particularly in the South, was their extreme lack of clannishness.
LInton Herbert
07/27/2013 at 5:40 AM (Edit)

@ Benjamin David Steele “rice cultivation developed in Africa independently of Asia. It was African rice plants and techniques that were imported to South Carolina” That’s fascinating. It used to be said as a joke, “In South Carolina we are Chinese; we eat rice and worship our ancestors.” Sad world when you can’t even beleve jokes, eh?
sNoOOPy
07/28/2013 at 1:10 AM (Edit)

@Tim Ossman

http://www.macroevolution.net/human-origins.html

(Spoiler: Chimp + Pig = Human)

(Pig + Man + Bear = ManBearPig)
JayMan
08/25/2013 at 11:12 PM (Edit)

Might be of interest to you. Latest from Peter Turchin:

Ibn Khaldun on the Rise and Decline of Corporate Empires | Social Evolution Forum
LInton Herbert
09/06/2013 at 6:50 AM (Edit)

@ Eren Jäger ” I would appreciate it if you could direct some traffic there.” I took a look at your site. Maybe I should have posted this note there.

At all events, yes it seems to me that “epigenetics” is well accepted as a phenomenon and epigenetic markers are, to a degree, passed from one generation to the next. There have indeed been suggestions that environmentally induced epigenetic signals can be passed along.

My own interest is in fertility. There is substantial evidence that if breeding is to close – inbreeding – there is a fertilty price to pay. If kinship is too remote – outbreeding – there is a similary penalty. Past some point, oh say 10th cousin, the mechanism saturates and there is no further penalty. However, the mechanism appears to be such that infertility accumulates over multiple generations. My suspicion is that this is what has caused the demographic decline in the west, and it would take a miracle to avert a disaster.

So far as I can tell the mechanism must be epigenetic. I cannot invent a classical genetic mechanism that would account for the evidence. I post what I can find out at nobabies.net.

Keep up the good work.
Linton Herbert
Bob Wallace
09/24/2013 at 10:51 AM (Edit)

Thanks for the link.

Do you ever write about imaginative introverted types capable of great concentration? Say Adam Smith? I get the distinct impression these people have been responsible for a great many discoveries/inventions – probably than any other group.
hbd chick
09/25/2013 at 4:48 PM (Edit)

@bob – “Do you ever write about imaginative introverted types capable of great concentration? Say Adam Smith? I get the distinct impression these people have been responsible for a great many discoveries/inventions – probably than any other group.”

no, i haven’t, but i think you’re probably right. i was enjoying flipping through this book the other day. (^_^)
Greying Wanderer
09/26/2013 at 1:20 AM (Edit)

hubchik
“no. according to the population geneticists — and i’m forced to take their word on this…ETHNOcentrism does not pay off genetically. or, rather, the genetic payoffs wouldn’t result in ethnocentrism (that’s the way to look at it). most people in your ethnic group are not closely enough related to you for the genetic payoff to work.”

I wonder about this – but will have to learn some math to prove it (or prove myself wrong).

If you start from now and look at it from the point of view of a particular individual and do the math on the basis of degrees of relatedness from that individual then yes i see that point.

But if you start from the beginning with a founder population expanding then you’re talking about a population who *start off* sharing a lot of genes.

It’s why i think exogamous marriage within an endogamous limit – for most of history an ethnic limit based on physical geography – makes the population more related rather than less. Imagine a highly related founder population arriving in Ireland for example. They start off with the same collection of genes and as they divide and spread out over the island the various clan groups become *less* related through drift etc but they are still more related to each other than they are to Africans. If at some point the population adopts an exogamous marriage form and applies it for long enough within that island limit so the variation between those clan grous is averaged out then i think they end up with everyone 4th or 5th cousins.

So i think ethno-centrism may turn out to pay off genetically on condition
– shared founder population
– exogamous marriage within the limit of that shared founder population over a long enough time to average out the relatedness
– small population size so the level of relatedness at the end of the process is still high

I think the result of being part of a population of say five million 5th cousins would show in things like attitude to publicly funded health, education, clean water etc – can’t prove it though :)
LInton Herbert
09/26/2013 at 4:44 AM (Edit)

@ Greying wanderer “I think the result of being part of a population of say five million 5th cousins would show in things like attitude to publicly funded health, education, clean water etc – can’t prove it though :)” I think somebody did a project that found that Ashkenazi Jews in this counry are related as seventh cousins, so that might be your test case.
On the other hand, the fertility payoff is probably not genetic at all. It’s epigenetic.

If you look at the Iceland data concerning consanguinty and fertility (go to http://nobabies.net/A%20December%20summary.html and scroll down to An Association between Kinship and Fertility of Human Couples Agnar Helgason et al. SCIENCE vol. 329 no. 5864 February 8, 2008 page 813 – 816) you will see that the fertility boost fades away after only a few generations. The Asheknazi are related as seventh cousins genetically, but that took thousands of years. It’s not like they had a common ancester 8 generations ago. If they had their fertiltiy would be really good, and it’s not.
Bob Wallace
09/27/2013 at 4:25 PM (Edit)

“Flatlanders vs. Mountain”

That’s interesting. My father was a general contractor. What we noticed (and perhaps this has being going on for a long time) is that whites live up in the hills and non-whites live in the valleys.
Nelson
09/28/2013 at 9:41 PM (Edit)

You’ve waited over seven months (excepting my blog post on the Jakiyah McKoy controversy) – now the wait is OVER!

HBD: On Puerto Ricans and Their Heritage, Part I: Before the Taíno :: Concourse Expressions
Robin
10/02/2013 at 11:11 AM (Edit)

love…Love…LOVE your linkfest! But one question…in the, “Maths is a man thing” post, does anybody know why people from the UK say “maths” instead of “math” like we do in the US??? They don’t say “sciences” and they don’t say “futbols” in reference to the sport…so why do they say “maths”…I find this quite vexing!
Anonymous
10/03/2013 at 4:31 AM (Edit)

@Robin “does anybody know why people from the UK say “maths” instead of “math”” I have no idea, but I’ll bet if you asked they’d respond, “For the same reason you say “mathematics” instead of “mathematic.”
chrisdavies09
10/25/2013 at 2:32 PM (Edit)

In reference to this article: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/342/6157/409.full
[from hbdchick's twitter]

“Ancient DNA Links Native Americans With Europe”

“Where did the first Americans come from? Most researchers agree that Paleoamericans moved across the Bering Land Bridge from Asia sometime before 15,000 years ago, suggesting roots in East Asia. But just where the source populations arose has long been a mystery.
Now comes a surprising twist, from the complete nuclear genome of a Siberian boy who died 24,000 years ago—the oldest complete genome of a modern human sequenced to date. His DNA shows close ties to those of today’s Native Americans. Yet he apparently descended not from East Asians, but from people who had lived in Europe or western Asia. The finding suggests that about a third of the ancestry of today’s Native Americans can be traced to “western Eurasia,” with the other two-thirds coming from eastern Asia, according to a talk at a meeting* here by ancient DNA expert Eske Willerslev of the University of Copenhagen. It also implies that traces of European ancestry previously detected in modern Native Americans do not come solely from mixing with European colonists, as most scientists had assumed, but have much deeper roots.”

This is not unsurprising. There are connections if one looks at HLA alleles & haplotypes.
For example:

HLA B*27:05

Sweden Northern Sami [N=154] 20.00%
USA Alaska Yupik [N=252] 11.50%
Sweden Southern Sami [N=130] 10.50%
USA North American Native [N=187] 8.60%
USA Arizona Pima [N=100] 7.90%
USA South Dakota Lakota Sioux [N=302] 7.40%
Belgium [N=99] 7.10%
USA Arizona Gila River Amerindian [N=492] 6.20%
Finland [N=91] 6.10%
Poland [N=20,653] 4.68%
Ireland South [N=250] 4.20%
England North West [N=298] 4.20%
India Tamil Nadu Nadar [N=61] 4.10%
Austria [N=200] 3.80%
Croatia [N=150] 3.70%
Germany [N=8862] 3.71%

etc. etc. etc.

http://www.allelefrequencies.net

hbd chick
10/25/2013 at 6:42 PM (Edit)

@chris – “This is not unsurprising. There are connections if one looks at HLA alleles & haplotypes.”

cool! (^_^)
laofmoonster
10/25/2013 at 8:37 PM (Edit)

Hey all, I’m laofmoonster, I’ve been vaguely aware of HBD for years but have been getting into it for the last 6 months or so. I was wondering, has anyone proposed that exogamy selects for high verbal IQ? People in exogamous cultures are forced to socialize with strangers more. To find a suitable spouse, they have to put more individual effort into courtship than in a clannish culture with arranged marriage.

This would explain the higher verbal IQ of Europeans compared to East Asians. As hbdchick has noted, Europeans have been exogamous since medieval times, while East Asia commonly had cousin marriages into the 20th century.
elijahlarmstrong
10/25/2013 at 9:21 PM (Edit)

I believe one of the Japanese inbreeding studies showed a relatively strong effect of inbreeding on verbal ability, so this is possible.
hbd chick
10/26/2013 at 4:35 PM (Edit)

@elijah – “I believe one of the Japanese inbreeding studies showed a relatively strong effect of inbreeding on verbal ability, so this is possible.”

huh. interesting! thanks, elijah.
Anonymous
10/27/2013 at 4:27 AM (Edit)

@hbd chick “@elijah – “I believe one of the Japanese inbreeding studies showed a relatively strong effect of inbreeding on verbal ability, so this is possible.”

huh. interesting! thanks, elijah.” Wait. I’m getting disoriented. I thought the Japanese were smarter than everybody else by a big margin. And I thought everthing bad was being attributed to inbreeding. Where did I miss the boat?
chrisdavies09
10/27/2013 at 11:55 AM (Edit)

I thought I would just mention here. I’ve had a WordPress account since 2009 but never used it. However yesterday (Saturday) I had an hour or so where I wasn’t busy, so decided to create my first ever blog post. When or if there will be another post I couldn’t say yet. But justifies having a WordPress account I suppose. Anyway here it is:

http://chrisdavies09.wordpress.com/2013/10/26/origins-of-americans-looking-at-hla-haplotypes/

[I probably need to learn how to actually write a blog post. Should there be a beginning, middle, and end for example? I must read up on it.]
hbd chick
10/27/2013 at 4:58 PM (Edit)

@anonymous – “And I thought everthing bad was being attributed to inbreeding. Where did I miss the boat?”

well, perhaps it’s because inbreeding isn’t always a bad thing. or that inbreeding isn’t a wholly bad thing.

as i’ve said before:

“obviously inbreeding is not (always) the whole story wrt high or low iqs. (i don’t see why this hasn’t been obvious to everybody since inbreeding is how we get thoroughbreds, after all! inbreeding can be good for you.)”
hbd chick
10/27/2013 at 5:06 PM (Edit)

@chris – “…decided to create my first ever blog post.”

oh, yay! (^_^) seriously — that is excellent! please, post more!

and do, please, re-post your guest post from here on hla’s over on your new blog. (^_^)

maps. maps would be great. visual aids. isn’t there a map function on allelefrequencies.net?
hbd chick
10/27/2013 at 5:14 PM (Edit)

@chris – “I probably need to learn how to actually write a blog post. Should there be a beginning, middle, and end for example? I must read up on it.”

(~_^) i still haven’t figured that out, either. if you find out, lemme know! (^_^)
Anonymous
10/28/2013 at 4:25 AM (Edit)

@hbd chick “well, perhaps it’s because inbreeding isn’t always a bad thing. or that inbreeding isn’t a wholly bad thing.” Thanks. Got it. My brain feel better now.
Anonymous
10/28/2013 at 4:29 AM (Edit)

@hbd chic, “i still haven’t figured that out, either” I think it’s unanimous that you’re really good.
chrisdavies09
10/28/2013 at 12:36 PM (Edit)

@hbdchick – “oh, yay! (^_^) seriously — that is excellent!”

Cheers! Thank you very much..

“please, post more!”

Will do, thanks.

Definitely some good advice about re-posting my guest post from this blog, don’t know why I didn’t think of that first. Will do it.

You are absolutely right about the maps. A visual element is what is needed. http://www.allelefrequencies.net does have maps. Will have to do a bit of reading up on how to actually use WordPress, maybe upgrade my account at some point as well. Thanks.
Greying Wanderer
11/02/2013 at 3:34 PM (Edit)

Why mass immigration causes hidden deflation

http://bankstastuff.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/how-mass-immigration-destroys-economy.html

Anonymous
11/03/2013 at 4:36 AM (Edit)

@greying wanderer “Why mass immigration causes hidden deflation” What oft was thought but ne’er so well expressed.
Greying Wanderer
11/03/2013 at 4:11 PM (Edit)

@Anon

ty. it’s been instinctively (and visually) obvious to a lot of people but hard to put your finger on exactly what the mechanism is.
confluenceartist
11/04/2013 at 5:17 PM (Edit)

Human superbiodiversity chick, eh? Sounds all sorts of awesome, but I must ask – what is superbiodiversity?
ckp
11/28/2013 at 3:11 PM (Edit)

I have some questions after reading your blog for a bit:

There’s the thesis that outbreeding among north-west Europeans contributed to their disavowal of nepotism, clan rivalries, advancement of capitalism, etc. They trusted distantly related people more than did their more inbred cousins in southern and eastern Europe. This brings me to my confusion – in European colonies the attitudes towards the natives seems to be the opposite of what this hypothesis would predict. Northwest Euro colonizers (British, Dutch, later the Germans ..) had very restrictive rules about how different ethnicities interacted with each other – segregation and apartheid. In contrast, the more clannish Euros mixed much more freely with the natives and imported slaves – the Portuguese are canonical examples, but the Spanish did the same. I would have thought that it would be the other way around.

Is this a problem for the hypothesis? Or is it accounted for in a way that I haven’t grasped yet?
hbd chick
11/29/2013 at 6:23 AM (Edit)

@ckp – “This brings me to my confusion – in European colonies the attitudes towards the natives seems to be the opposite of what this hypothesis would predict. Northwest Euro colonizers (British, Dutch, later the Germans ..) had very restrictive rules about how different ethnicities interacted with each other – segregation and apartheid. In contrast, the more clannish Euros mixed much more freely with the natives and imported slaves – the Portuguese are canonical examples, but the Spanish did the same. I would have thought that it would be the other way around.”

yeah, that’s a good question!

i think the difference probably stems from the differing migration patterns between the nw european colonizers vs. the iberians: the britich, dutch, and germans tended to migrate in whole family units — mom, dad, the kids (see Albion’s Seed on this, for example) — whereas the iberians tended to be mostly males (at least early on — i’m not sure why this was, actually — did they have an excess of second sons or what?). with the mostly male spaniards and portugese in the new world, of couse they were going to “fraternize” with the locals, because they wanted wives (and there were comparatively few iberian girls to choose from)! the nw europeans in north america — they were arriving with whole societies in tow — priests, merchants, farmers — and all with their families. they were really and truly transplanting themselves and their (ideal) societies in the new world.

i think that’s probably the explanation, although i could be wrong. could always be a problem for my theory. (~_^) i’ll keep it in mind. thanks for bringing it up!

i’ve added a feed from my twitter account to the ol’ blog here — center column below (↓) towards the bottom.

been retweeting a lot of interesting stuff (like this article!) lately that doesn’t necessarily make it into my sunday(-ish) linkfests, and i thought that those of you not on twitter might like to see some of them.

that is all. (^_^)

links don’t appear in this backup post. but i’ve got them in the blog backup files — so if you really want a link from an old open thread comment, just ask. (^_^)

JayMan
07/01/2012 at 6:34 AM (Edit)

Have you seen this?

GEEK Magazine photo
Justthisguy
07/07/2012 at 12:36 AM (Edit)

I was just reading something The Derb wrote, about a conference he’d attended. He said that he had met hbdchick, and that he found her lovely and charming. Ha! I knew it! You _are_ an hot aspie chick. It’s a shame there are so few of you, and that even fewer of you are available for social interactions.
hbd chick
07/07/2012 at 1:40 AM (Edit)

@justthisguy – “…and that he found her lovely and charming.”

he’s just saying that ’cause i bought his book. (~_^)

the derb was very charming and a very funny guy! i’m glad to have had the chance to meet him. (^_^)
JayMan
07/07/2012 at 2:31 PM (Edit)

I remember once seeing somewhere on this blog a post, complete with a map, similar to this one, noting the correlation between dominant religion in Europe and ethnic group. But for the life of me I can’t find it again. Any ideas which post could this be, or am I remembering entirely the wrong site? This will come in handy for my next post about ideology in Europe.
Justthisguy
07/08/2012 at 6:37 AM (Edit)

Sometime between last night and this morning, One STDV took his blog private. You might want to remove it from your list of links.
hbd chick
07/09/2012 at 4:42 AM (Edit)

@jayman – “I remember once seeing somewhere on this blog a post, complete with a map, similar to this one, noting the correlation between dominant religion in Europe and ethnic group.”

i think you might be thinking of this post (i had a struggle finding it, too!).

keep in mind that i drew that map with a crayon ms paint and more-or-less by guesstimation! (~_^)
hbd chick
07/09/2012 at 4:45 AM (Edit)

@justthisguy – “Sometime between last night and this morning, One STDV took his blog private. You might want to remove it from your list of links.”

huh. wonder what prompted him to do that? i’ll prolly just leave the link there — some people might be happy to sign in to blogger (that looks like all you have to do to view his blog, i think?).
Justthisguy
07/09/2012 at 10:49 PM (Edit)

Nope. I was signed in with my blogger ID and it was invisible to me.

OT, but please have a look at my anti-saxophone rant on my blog. It is quite foamy, if I do say so myself. I have undertaken a personal mission to spread hatred of saxophones and saxophonists throughout the whole wide world.
hbd chick
07/09/2012 at 10:55 PM (Edit)

@justthisguy – “Nope. I was signed in with my blogger ID and it was invisible to me.”

huh. too bad.

@justthisguy – “I have undertaken a personal mission to spread hatred of saxophones and saxophonists throughout the whole wide world.”

oh noes! i luv the sax! (~_^)
JayMan
07/11/2012 at 12:10 PM (Edit)

Have you had this problem?

Apparently, Google “Safe Browsing” has flagged my old blog site as containing malware (check it out, jayman.blog.com). My new site is up and running with no problems, so I’m good there, but I still need folks who were linked to my old site to find my new site, and naturally I don’t want them seeing a big red screen about how my site can harm their computer…

Of course, this surprised me, and I went all over my site and found nothing wrong, so I changed my password and moved on. A scan of my site (http://sitecheck.sucuri.net/scanner/) has found no problems other than the Google blacklisting. I’ve went through the necessary steps with Google for them to review my site. I don’t see a legitimate reason for this…unless…

Am I really being Watsoned already? Man…..at least let me get famous first…… :\
Justthisguy
07/12/2012 at 3:26 AM (Edit)

Dang, Jayman, that sucks. I have surmised, from some hints I’ve noticed around the Web, that you might have some African ancestry yourself. If that is the case, that really sucks.

Here at the chick’s place, we’re all about telling the truth and shaming the devil, and doing justice, though the heavens fall.

I believe that each human race has some characteristically annoying characteristics, as noticed by people of other races, and also some characteristically admirable characteristics, also as noticed by people of other races. (Jews are really good at business, but you don’t want to work for one if your’e a gentile.)
LInton Herbert
07/12/2012 at 4:48 AM (Edit)

@ Jayman “Am I really being Watsoned already? ” What does that mean? Does it mean they are trying to keep you invisible? Did Sherlock do something to Watson I don’t know about? Anyway, these things do happen. A couple of days ago I was giving a radio interview (nckradio, if you can get through it) All perfectly innocent New Age specuation about the earth as an organized entity and I don’t mean just the biosphere. When the host invited me to name my web site, I got cut off. So HE gave may web site and the whole show got cut off. Perfectly normal paranoia. Nothing to worry about.
LInton Herbert
07/12/2012 at 4:54 AM (Edit)

@justthisguy “I believe that each human race has some characteristically annoying characteristics, as noticed by people of other races” You could be right. And that goes tenfold for every religion. I suspect the whole purpose of religions is to offend outsiders. They’re so good at it they even offend insiders.
Justthisguy
07/12/2012 at 7:22 PM (Edit)

“They’re so good at it they even offend insiders.”

You are so right, Linton. My own church is a perfect example. It’s a little splinter faction run by the Anglican Mission in the Americas, out of Africa, to bring the gospel to the heathen whites and those who are just fed up with ECUSA. I don’t how widely known this is, but most Anglicans in the world are non-white. Until recently we were affiliated with the Anglican Province of Rwanda. However, there was a shakeup in the House of Bishops in Rwanda with most of them, who were Tutsis, resigning. The new bunch, mostly Hutus, cut us loose. I think we are now going to come under an archbishop in Ghana.

I find all of this quite funny, being the White Nationalist that I am. Why, the last time I happened to meet a strange Negro in the men’s room, I said, “How do you do, Your Grace?” (He was our previous Archbishop, the Tutsi.)
hbd chick
07/13/2012 at 1:18 AM (Edit)

@jayman – “Have you had this problem? Apparently, Google ‘Safe Browsing’ has flagged my old blog site as containing malware (check it out, jayman.blog.com).”

oh, no! =/

i can’t say that i’ve experienced it one way or another with hbdchick because i’ve never used/tried google’s ‘safe browsing.’ -?- hope you get it sorted out with them! lemme know what happens.
hbd chick
07/13/2012 at 1:24 AM (Edit)

@linton – “‘Am I really being Watsoned already?’ What does that mean?”

being “watsoned” refers to being blacklisted and/or otherwise being treated as a pariah because of saying something politically incorrect. it’s a reference to what happened to the reknowned scientist, james d. watson, when he made some comments about intelligence in africans (he basically lost his position as the head of the cold spring harbor laboratory which HE founded!).
hbd chick
07/13/2012 at 1:27 AM (Edit)

@linton – “I suspect the whole purpose of religions is to offend outsiders.”

heh! that’s a good way of putting it, and it really does get to the heart of establishing religious institutions — or any institution for that matter — namely to indicate who’s in the ingroup and who’s in the outgroup. all the specifics are just … minor details.
JayMan
07/17/2012 at 7:24 PM (Edit)

Try this one on for size:

Maureen Dowd accused of ‘ethnic empathy’ for writing about fellow Irish American

Here’s a quote:

Writing in the Los Angeles Times, senior editorial writer Michael McGough asks the question, ”Is ethnic empathy the same as bigotry?” and concludes that “ethnic empathy isn’t the same as bigotry, after all. But it’s still politically incorrect. “

JayMan
07/17/2012 at 7:25 PM (Edit)

Here the working link:

Maureen Dowd accused of ‘ethnic empathy’ for writing about fellow Irish American
Justthisguy
07/17/2012 at 11:21 PM (Edit)

Hmm. My comments above might as well have been dropped into a mile-deep well without the slightest echo of a splash, to stretch a metaphor. Why did nobody answer me? C’mon, cut some slack for a Theist who is trying to do right! At least, tell me why you think I’m wrong
LInton Herbert
07/18/2012 at 4:28 AM (Edit)

@justthisguy ” tell me why you think I’m wrong” thanks for the invitation, but I don’t think you’re wrong. Last I recollect we were thumping each other on the back on July 12 saying “Yeah, yeah.” Did I miss something?
hbd chick
07/18/2012 at 3:41 PM (Edit)

@justthisguy – “At least, tell me why you think I’m wrong.”

you mean about this?:

“I believe that each human race has some characteristically annoying characteristics, as noticed by people of other races, and also some characteristically admirable characteristics, also as noticed by people of other races.”

can’t say that i can argue about any of that at all. (^_^)

@justthisguy – “Jews are really good at business, but you don’t want to work for one if your’e a gentile.”

i’ve actually worked for three jews in my lifetime. two were great experiences and one was just awful. but i think the difference was that the two great experiences were when i worked for guys and the bad experience was a woman boss. ugh.
hbd chick
07/18/2012 at 3:58 PM (Edit)

@jayman – “Maureen Dowd accused of ‘ethnic empathy’ for writing about fellow Irish American”

oh, jeez.

at least the guy that was critical of dowd got this right:

“Maybe, for her, as for a lot of her Irish American readers, Rory’s appearance and ethnicity made his unnecessary death just a bit more more painful.”

duh!

he got this right, too:

“If Mom and Maureen are racists for feeling a special pang at the closed eyes on a ‘sweet Irish face,’ then Barack Obama was a racist for observing that ‘if I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon.’”
JayMan
07/20/2012 at 11:05 AM (Edit)

@”at least the guy that was critical of dowd got this right”

“Maybe, for her, as for a lot of her Irish American readers, Rory’s appearance and ethnicity made his unnecessary death just a bit more more painful.”

duh!”

It’s something isn’t it? Maybe they want to see how far they can push The Narrative, because according to it, to have such feelings would indeed make one (Whites) racist.
JayMan
07/20/2012 at 11:07 AM (Edit)

You might be interested in this:

Ashkenazi Jews are not inbred | Gene Expression | Discover Magazine.
LInton Herbert
07/21/2012 at 4:34 AM (Edit)

@jayman “…Narrative, because according to it, to have such feelings would indeed make one (Whites) racist.” Welll… So far as I know, if a non-white (whatever “white” means) makes a remark that in other contexts means what would be called “racism” it is in fact called “reverse racism.” That means that “racist” is a hate word for “white.” Like other hate words it identifies the target and adds the message, “They are all alike, and all of them have something we all know about that is wrong with them.”

Is that logical?
hbd chick
07/23/2012 at 6:21 PM (Edit)

@jayman – “You might be interested in this”

thanks!
hbd chick
07/23/2012 at 6:30 PM (Edit)

@linton – “whatever ‘white’ means”

i like to go with the oxford english dictionary on this one. they usually know what they’re talking about when it comes to english words:

“white: 3b (usu. W-) of or belonging to a light-skinned people, chiefly inhabiting or descended from those having inhabited Europe; of or pertaining to White people.”

pretty straightforward.
LInton Herbert
07/23/2012 at 7:20 PM (Edit)

@hbd chick “”pertaining to White people.” pretty straightforward. ” Sure, for most purposes. A pathological nit picker could use the phrase, “Self-identified White people,” which would be unambigous, but it sounds kind of PC. My problem is that my own mental abberation is to try to produce computer models of the evolution of populations, evolution in it’s proper sense of “change” that is. I’ve done selection, but it’s only the tip of the berg and didn’t produce any surprises. The computer is in fact more compulsive than I am. It wants definitions that can be carried for a thousand generations in the face of any condition, including mating strategy. Words like “chiefly” do not compute. “Descended from” needs to be made quantitative in a precise fashion. As far as the computer runs, optimal outbreeding a la Patric Bateson is real. Larger assemblages appear to have no biological reality.
But that’s just me. (“just I”?) After all, I wrote the code for the program so it contains my own biases. I didn’t mean to deny human biodiversity, which applies ot assemblages invisible to my own technique.
Didn’t mean to challenge anybody elses right to use the word. Just didn’t want to imply more than I meant. But I would seriously consider challenging use of the word “racist.” My question was whether the logic behind that seems sound.
Greying Wanderer
07/23/2012 at 8:23 PM (Edit)

“You might be interested in this: Ashkenazi Jews are not inbred”

It kind of makes sense when you think about it if inbreeding is mostly about repeatedly marrying close relatives from the same few families. Ashkenazi Jews might then be more like Danes or Icelanders who are exogamous within a fixed endogamous pool delimited by geographic national borders in one case and religious national borders in the other.

I expect there were many times and places when the same few families in particular towns or families in the same economic niche did inbreed for sustained periods but overall they might even be an early case of exogamy within a homogenous population.

Oddly enough lots of expulsions would have helped this mixing and anti inbreeding process – as would adapting to the prevailing mores over close-kin marriages which i assume didn’t apply among Jews in the middle-east?
Justthisguy
07/24/2012 at 4:15 AM (Edit)

The one Jew I actually worked for was quite a sweety-pie of an old gent, but it was understood by all that the business was a family business, that I was not family, and that I was not going to be promoted, nor marry the Boss’s daughter, or anything like that, just collect my minimum wage and keep the stock on the shelves in order. I was cool with that. It was a very nice hardware store.
JayMan
07/24/2012 at 9:47 PM (Edit)

Here you go, drawn by me, at the behest of my gf:

New Welcome to Maine Sign
Greying Wanderer
07/25/2012 at 4:39 PM (Edit)

“Here you go”

lol
JayMan
08/02/2012 at 10:35 AM (Edit)

Check this out, a rather excellent post by Half Sigma:

Asperger syndrome, the nerdy personality, and HBD
JayMan
08/02/2012 at 10:39 AM (Edit)

Whoops, I meant this post by HS:

Half Sigma: HBD, the stupidity of crowds, and the Efficient Market Hypothesis
hbd chick
08/02/2012 at 5:59 PM (Edit)

@jayman – “Whoops, I meant this post by HS.”

that was good! i’m inclined to agree with hs that the elites do not secretly understand hbd — for the most part anyway.

i liked this quote he had from another blogger:

“Asperger defined a syndrome characterized in part by an inability to understand peer pressure or be political – one half of the wonder twin power that makes people with Aspergers so valuable in the face of mob rule. The very attributes causing them to be shunned from the crowd are accompanied by the power to ignore the crowd. The other half is the ability to recognize patterns others do not and focus on details while unable to see the big picture. When those powers touch in a person who is willing to spend long hours alone in a lab or in front of a computer, you get very different, and often great results.”

yup! (~_^) (very different, anyway!)
LInton Herbert
08/02/2012 at 7:38 PM (Edit)

@hbd chick “and often great results.” yup! (~_^) (very different, anyway!)” You know, you can get in trouble the other way, too, seeing a picture that is too big. One time when it worked out rather nicely I was sipping tea in a modest home in Greece. My host asked what I was doing in that part of town and I said, “I was wondering when the castle was built.” “What castle?” “The one we’re in right now.” “This is my house.” “Those three walls are your house, but this wall is a castle.” He gave me the same look you would have given me had it been your house. I conintued, “Come ouside and I’ll show you.” I pointed out some ruins at a very long distance. No question but that was part of a castle. Then I picked out other bits of old wall, establishing the outline of an enormous fort. At last I pointed out bits of the nearest wall, and it’s interior aligned perfectly with the wall I had sitting beside. I asked, “So who built the castle?” “I don’t know. I never saw that castle before in my life.” It was a merry jest, buy you can imagine the problems we might have had if it had been a matter of some emotional consequence. He would have never seen it from my perspective. BTW when my little brother heard the story he would not rest until he got to the bottom of it. It was built by the Ottomans.
Greying Wanderer
08/03/2012 at 3:15 AM (Edit)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotra

A new (maybe?) word for you, Gotra :)

(Mostly) similar to what seems (to me) to be a common pattern: division into a male / female line with marriage along the male line seen as incestuous out to the nth degree (or as far as people can remember*) while along the female line it isn’t seen as incestuous even if it’s uncle-neice.

(*It’s very easy to remember of course if the man keeps the surname and marriage can’t be between the same surnames. I wonder if relative simplicity is one of the reasons it’s so common?)

The big distinction between the Catholic church’s ban and the various forms of non-FBD marriage bans seems to be it applies to both the male and female lines.

Some matrilineal exceptions mentioned too.
JayMan
08/14/2012 at 8:37 PM (Edit)

Check this out:

Giant pumice island floats in the Pacific
Greying Wanderer
08/15/2012 at 5:14 AM (Edit)

Corn Island
hbd chick
08/15/2012 at 10:33 AM (Edit)

@jayman – “Giant pumice island…”

crazy! (^_^)
ogunsiron
08/20/2012 at 8:29 PM (Edit)

HBDchick,
could you perhaps discuss or encourage discussion about Julian Saluvescu’s latest ?
He’s the infanticide happy ethicist who’s saying that it’s a moral obligation to genetically modify embryos so that they develop into children who are “ethical”. By that he means that it’s an ethical obligation to stamp out among other psychological traits, an inclination for groupness. I suppose that he leaves the option of infanticide for kids for whom the genetic enhancement didn’t work out after all.
Justthisguy
08/21/2012 at 1:09 AM (Edit)

@hbdchick @5:59: Yep, thinking as I do that I have a bit of the autitude, I have always been amused, bemused, and sometimes annoyed by the antics of the normal human social monkeys. For instance, I am not a “normal” visceral instinctive racist like most people, but an aesthetic and intellectual one. I don’t get along any better with my genetically quite similar immediate family than I do with any random Chinaman or Bantu. I just happen to think that white folks are better-looking than everybody else and also founded Western Civilization, which used to be synonymous with Christendom. I am a rather faithless person by nature, but I religiously (heh) attend traditional Anglican services every week, because, well, it is meet and right so to do.
JayMan
08/21/2012 at 6:26 AM (Edit)

Just wanted to point you to some discussion and Peter Frost’s words on your stuff.
hbd chick
08/21/2012 at 9:53 AM (Edit)

@jayman – “Just wanted to point you to some discussion and Peter Frost’s words on your stuff.”

thanks!
JayMan
08/23/2012 at 8:05 PM (Edit)

In case you haven’t seen it already, see here, echoing something I heard from somewhere, I don’t know where… ;)
JayMan
08/29/2012 at 10:22 PM (Edit)

Check this out:

The Hidden Truths about Calories | Guest Blog, Scientific American Blog Network
A few nice HBD tidbits in there:

Humans vary in nearly all traits, whether height, skin color, or our guts. Back when it was the craze to measure such variety European scientists discovered that Russian intestines are about five feet longer than those of, say, Italians. This means that those Russians eating the same amount of food as the Italians likely get more out of it. Just why the Russians had (or have) longer intestines is an open question. Surely other peoples differ in their intestines too; intestines need more study, though I am not going to volunteer to do the dirty work. We also vary in terms of how much of particular enzymes we produce; the descendents of peoples who consumed lots of starchy food tend to produce more amylase, the enzyme that breaks down starch. Then there is the enzyme our bodies use to digest the lactose in milk, lactase. Many (some say most) adults are lactose deficient; they do not produce lactase and so do not break down the lactose in milk. As a result, even if they drink milk they receive far fewer calories from doing so than do individuals who produce lactase. Each of us gets a different number of calories out of identical foods because of who we are and who our ancestors were.

hbd chick
08/30/2012 at 10:52 PM (Edit)

@jayman – cool! (^_^)

WHAT is with the difference in intestinal length?! never heard that before, and that is … something! have they taken overall size differences into consideration do you know? i mean, large russian person vs. small mediterranean person — might just have more intestines due to that, no? still incredible, though!

(hmmm. now i’m hungry. (~_^) )
Greying Wanderer
08/31/2012 at 11:46 AM (Edit)

“Back when it was the craze to measure such variety European scientists discovered that Russian intestines are about five feet longer than those of, say, Italians.”

I love that kind of stuff.
LInton Herbert
08/31/2012 at 12:53 PM (Edit)

@ Greying Wanderer. .” I love that kind of stuff.” I don’t know about bowel overall, but years ago I used to examine colons a lot. Most were pretty much the same size. Some were enormous, very long and broad. I do not remember a big one ever being symptomatic or showing a disease. Now I’m wondering whether any of them were Russian.
JayMan
09/02/2012 at 2:29 PM (Edit)

The Etruscans:

The mystery of Etruscan origins: novel clues from Bos taurus mitochondrial DNA
Nelson
09/04/2012 at 11:13 AM (Edit)

Hey hbd* chick:

Given the recent uptick in academic/administrative cheating scandals (including the latest one – at Harvard, no less) – I think you’ll find my blog post on possible factors interesting:

Opinion: Do Cheaters *Always* Win?
JayMan
09/05/2012 at 12:00 PM (Edit)

Razib Khan has a post up about the relatedness of different siblings and other family members to each other:

Me & my 0.55 brother against my 0.45 brother | Gene Expression | Discover Magazine

In it he delves into something interesting:

But on a broader evolutionary scale, does this matter? Two of my siblings have a relatedness of 41%. In other words, as you can see in the histogram there is a wide variation in relatedness. Might this perhaps impact social relations? One can imagine genetically more similar siblings aligning against those who are dissimilar. Or not. I am skeptical that this would apply to humans, but I do wonder about organisms with larger broods. If we don’t find much variation on the scale of siblings, despite genetic variation (and therefore, likely phenotypic tells of similarity), then I would hazard to suggest that inclusive fitness is not quite the razor sharp discerning tool that some posit it is.

The histogram shows that about 95% of sibling variation is relatedness is between 40% and 60% range. Contra to his claims, I have read that grandparents do favor the grandchildren with whom they share the most genes (which can vary considerably). If we extend that to cousins, who may be more or less related to each other, and then again with consideration of the degree of inbreeding in the society, then this seems right up your alley…
hbd chick
09/05/2012 at 1:28 PM (Edit)

@jayman – “‘One can imagine genetically more similar siblings aligning against those who are dissimilar. Or not.’”

i guess razib doesn’t have a big enough extended family to have observed this extensively. (~_^) maybe you have to have 52 first cousins (like moi!) to really see this in action. let me tell you, there are more instances of similar siblings (judging by appearance and temperament) in my extended family aligning themselves together than not. even in my parents’ generation on my mother’s side it was four of them vs. two (still is) — and the four are like their father (my grandfather) while the two are like their mother (my grandmother). i think this definitely happens!

@jayman – “I have read that grandparents do favor the grandchildren with whom they share the most genes (which can vary considerably).”

yeah, cool stuff! i posted a while back about one such study related to grandmas. the researchers found that grandchild survival depended upon the presence of differently related grandmas (depending upon the differential inheritance of the x-chromosome). for example, grandsons did better with maternal than paternal grandmas, presumably ’cause they’re more related.

the researchers found quite some differences in the survival rates, though, in different populations and i wonder if different mating patterns in the populations that they looked at might have something to do with it. inbreeding in one direction or another (maternal or paternal cousin marriages) might tweak the grandmother-grandchildren degrees of relatedness even further, so that perhaps might explain the differences between populations that they found. dunno. just a thought. (^_^)
JayMan
09/08/2012 at 10:44 PM (Edit)

Wackypedia, huh:

Philip Roth Posts Angry Letter To Wikipedia To Get Error Fixed
AP
hbd chick
09/09/2012 at 5:16 AM (Edit)

@jayman – “Philip Roth Posts Angry Letter To Wikipedia To Get Error Fixed AP”

heh. (^_^)

the story of what inspired roth to write The Human Stain is even wackier (believe it or not)! what an orwellian world we live in:

“Roth wrote in 2012 that the book was inspired ‘by an unhappy event in the life of my late friend Melvin Tumin, professor of sociology at Princeton for some thirty years’. Roth explained that Tumin had noticed that two students enrolled in one of his courses had never attended class. At mid-semester he asked the class about the missing students, saying ‘Does anyone know these people? Do they exist or are they spooks?’ Roth wrote:

“‘Almost immediately Mel was summoned by university authorities to justify his use of the word “spooks,” since the two missing students, as it happened, were both African-American, and “spooks” at one time in America was a pejorative designation for blacks, spoken venom milder than “nigger” but intentionally degrading nonetheless. A witch hunt ensued during the following months from which Professor Tumin—rather like Professor Silk in “The Human Stain”—emerged blameless but only after he had to provide a number of lengthy depositions declaring himself innocent of the charge of hate speech…’”

truly bizarre.
JayMan
09/09/2012 at 6:17 AM (Edit)

“the story of what inspired roth to write The Human Stain is even wackier (believe it or not)! what an orwellian world we live in”

Indeed… :\
JayMan
09/09/2012 at 6:33 AM (Edit)

See this post by Razib Khan on Italy (and Europe in general):

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/09/the-europes/

JayMan
09/09/2012 at 7:29 AM (Edit)

Might be interesting to the readers:

Autism Spectrum Quotient

I scored 24 when I took it awhile back.
hbd chick
09/09/2012 at 8:42 AM (Edit)

@jayman – 33. (*^_^*) “32 – 50 is very high (most people with Asperger Syndrome or high-functioning autism score about 35)”

the tough ones for me are anything that interrupts with my daily routine or not getting to pursue what i’m interested in. boy do those things make me cranky! (~_^) the worst is if my breakfast routine (breakfast+latte + drudge/steve sailer/other blogs) is disrupted. then the whole day is a disaster (mood wise).

and i like to collect information about different categories of things. i think i’ve saved half the internet by now! (~_^) (edit: i used to just save links, until i discovered that webpages sometimes disappear! disaster!! (~_^) )
LInton Herbert
09/09/2012 at 9:00 AM (Edit)

@ Jayman “I scored 24 when I took it awhile back.” I scored five. Oh, well. I supposed autism is just another of those things I’m not very good at.
hbd chick
09/09/2012 at 9:07 AM (Edit)

@linton – “I supposed autism is just another of those things I’m not very good at.”

(^_^) (^_^) (^_^)

i think i must now make you my reference person for all things non-autistic, linton. you must be the most neurotypical person i know! (^_^) (not that there’s anything wrong with that! (^_^) )
LInton Herbert
09/09/2012 at 9:30 AM (Edit)

@hbd chick “i think i must now make you my reference person for all things non-autistic!” Thanks. I wondered whether there was a use for somebody with a severe case of the ordinaries. Oddly, my life work, which involves lots of reading and lab routines and computer programing, would be better done by somebody with what I would call better work habits. Next incarnation, maybe.
Greying Wanderer
09/09/2012 at 12:37 PM (Edit)

“Autism Spectrum Quotient”

16 for me. Mr Uber-average :)

.
“I would hazard to suggest that inclusive fitness is not quite the razor sharp discerning tool that some posit it is.”

“i guess razib doesn’t have a big enough extended family to have observed this extensively”

Yes, i’m thinking it’s an “on average” type of thing. I have a bro who’s effectively a twin in terms of personality but we look very different and another who is similar looking but chalk and cheese on personality but i think on average the personality genes and the appearance genes will coincide more often in the 55% bro than they will in the 45% bro.

I’m also wondering if it actually makes more sense for evolution to be a bit “fuzzy logic” about all this. If you have an organism who partly create their own environment through culture then although inclusive fitness makes logical sense as a, and maybe the main, driving force i think an optimal fail-safe system would include random dice rolls at least in terms of behavioral traits to prevent the possibility of populations heading into a dead end.

The reasoning behind thinking this is in pre-offshoring industrial working class neighborhoods, especially those that pre-date welfare, r-type behaviors (in r/K terms) had been massively squeezed and had a pretty extreme cultural taint applied.

(I think you could even see the rise of Methodism among the English working class as the creation of a culture neccessary to survive in the early industrial environment.)

However although r-type behaviors were marginalised they never went away completely even popping up occasionally in the families of the most K-type people.

The thing about that is when the steel plants etc were offshored those K-type behaviors suddenly become a massive handicap and the r-type behaviors flourished. Now i particularly dislike r-type behavior on a personal level but in terms of survival they have done a lot better in the last 30 years than the K-type people – and like i say some of the r-types spawned in K-type families. Similarly even in the most r-type populations you get K-type people struggling to do the best for their kids against all the odds – a marginalized minority maybe but they exist.

So basically i’m thinking 90% logical evolutionary process and 10% random dice rolls actually makes the logical part more efficient by providing a fail-safe.
LInton Herbert
09/09/2012 at 5:23 PM (Edit)

@Greying Wanderer “So basically i’m thinking 90% logical evolutionary process and 10% random dice rolls actually makes the logical part more efficient by providing a fail-safe.” That makes good sense. I like it. I think I’ve heard the idea somewhere before as the explanation as to why we have sex. The organsm keeps a lot of genetic material around that is unused and maybe not well adapted to the presen situation but during the shuffle of sexual reproduction that material may be manifest as a throwback. That would be quite adaptive if the environment were to revert to an earlier stage (like what the ding dong are we going to do when the current hich tech civilization implodes? Maybe a few Tarzan types will make it through.)
And of course extremely rarely the old abilities might be adaptive to a new environment. Take the iconic spear hunter. He must stay alert for hours, maybe days, be ready to respond instantly to a sudden danger, put up with hunger and thirst, plan his route far ahead, be able to use his spear as cunningly as if it were part of him and so forth. It’s the kind of thing you need driving a car a long distance, more so back before the interstate system of course.
Greying Wanderer
09/09/2012 at 6:28 PM (Edit)

@Linton
“The organsm keeps a lot of genetic material around that is unused and maybe not well adapted to the presen situation but during the shuffle of sexual reproduction that material may be manifest as a throwback.”

Yes, exactly – store it all somewhere just in case it comes in useful in the future.

Nelson
09/09/2012 at 9:07 PM (Edit)

I scored 27 on that Autism Spectrum Quotient assessment (above average)…I’d say it’s just about right.
JayMan
09/10/2012 at 12:41 PM (Edit)

@HBD Chick:

“the tough ones for me are anything that interrupts with my daily routine or not getting to pursue what i’m interested in. boy do those things make me cranky! (~_^)”

I hate having my routine messed with. After all, it’s a good routine, it took me several years to perfect it! ;)

“the worst is if my breakfast routine (breakfast+latte + drudge/steve sailer/other blogs) is disrupted. then the whole day is a disaster (mood wise).”

I have the same thing for breakfast every day (bowl of cereal + random protein + orange drink of some sort). Indeed, I can’t even imagine the day without it.

“and i like to collect information about different categories of things. i think i’ve saved half the internet by now! (~_^) (edit: i used to just save links, until i discovered that webpages sometimes disappear! disaster!! (~_^) )”

I never really developed a good system of dealing with bookmarks (pages of interests gets lost in long lists of bookmarks). Instead, I’ve come up with ways of remembering where I’ve read things and searching for them later.

This list here describes me perfectly (except that I am able to come up with stuff on the fly more often now). Though it describes introverts, it’s interesting how much of it seems to apply to the autism spectrum. Do introversion and autism have things in common, or do they simply tend to be associated?
hbd chick
09/11/2012 at 3:14 PM (Edit)

@jayman – “I scored 24 when I took it awhile back.”

@linton – “I scored five.”

@g.w. – “16 for me. Mr Uber-average :)”

@nelson – “I scored 27″

i win!!!!!!! (^_^) (or: i guess i’m as odd as i always suspected…. (~_^) )
hbd chick
09/11/2012 at 3:20 PM (Edit)

@linton – “The organsm keeps a lot of genetic material around that is unused and maybe not well adapted to the presen situation but during the shuffle of sexual reproduction that material may be manifest as a throwback. That would be quite adaptive if the environment were to revert to an earlier stage….”

@g.w. – “Yes, exactly – store it all somewhere just in case it comes in useful in the future.”

atavism! (^_^)
hbd chick
09/11/2012 at 3:27 PM (Edit)

@g.w. – i feel so sorry for those hoarder ladies (and they’re usually women, aren’t they?). =/

when i was a kid, there was a house in our neighborhood that was obviously inhabited by a hoarder. when you looked in the front window (there were no curtains) — and it was a big window something like this — there was literally junk piled up to the ceiling. i have no idea (being like 9 or 10 at the time) if anyone tried to help the person. i’ll have to ask my mom.
hbd chick
09/11/2012 at 3:39 PM (Edit)

@jayman – “I never really developed a good system of dealing with bookmarks (pages of interests gets lost in long lists of bookmarks).”

oh, yes! i know that problem. a list of bookmarks so long that it becomes unusable. (~_^)

i’ve got a technique now of saving bookmarks (URLs) in notepad files — i’ve got a couple of different ones for different topics. it’s a little bit of work, but once you get used to it (copying & pasting URLs/titles of pages), then it’s a handy, easily searchable resource. at least i think so. (^_^)

@jayman – “Do introversion and autism have things in common, or do they simply tend to be associated?”

i think maybe all (nearly all?) auties/aspies are introverts, but not all introverts are on the autistic spectrum. something like that.

you’ve seen the now classic Caring for Your Introvert, i hope! (^_^) definitely a link to send to anyone you know who needs to learn about what you are. (^_^) this paragraph still makes me giggle:

“The worst of it is that extroverts have no idea of the torment they put us through. Sometimes, as we gasp for air amid the fog of their 98-percent-content-free talk, we wonder if extroverts even bother to listen to themselves. Still, we endure stoically, because the etiquette books—written, no doubt, by extroverts—regard declining to banter as rude and gaps in conversation as awkward. We can only dream that someday, when our condition is more widely understood, when perhaps an Introverts’ Rights movement has blossomed and borne fruit, it will not be impolite to say ‘I’m an introvert. You are a wonderful person and I like you. But now please shush.’”

(^_^) (^_^) (^_^)
Greying Wanderer
09/11/2012 at 4:26 PM (Edit)

“Atavism”

It has it’s own name :)

“i feel so sorry for those hoarder ladies”

yes you get the feeling they lost something particularly important once and never got over it

“(and they’re usually women, aren’t they?). =/”

hmm, not sure
hbd chick
09/11/2012 at 4:42 PM (Edit)

@g.w – “hmm, not sure”

i used to work with (a very quirky, so i liked him a lot!) guy who, according to co-workers, was a hoarder. but a very tidy one, apparently. i was never in his apartment, but by all accounts, there were stacks of things (magazines, books, photos, but also other stuff like board games and jigsaw puzzles and clothes and … just everything!) up to the ceiling … but there were orderly pathways through the piles so he could get around his place.

he was gay, though, so … effeminate.
Greying Wanderer
09/11/2012 at 6:04 PM (Edit)

“he was gay, though, so … effeminate.”

heh, that could be it. i’ve come across both male and female but can’t remember the proportions.
JayMan
09/13/2012 at 12:41 PM (Edit)

“you’ve seen the now classic Caring for Your Introvert, i hope! (^_^) definitely a link to send to anyone you know who needs to learn about what you are.”

No, I haven’t seen that one, but I have seen things like it. Thanks!

“(^_^) this paragraph still makes me giggle:”
“The worst of it is that extroverts have no idea of the torment they put us through. Sometimes, as we gasp for air amid the fog of their 98-percent-content-free talk, we wonder if extroverts even bother to listen to themselves.”

Yes, indeed, for a long time, I have always been fascinated by the amount of fluff that most conversations people engage in contain. If I can’t direct what’s being said into something funny, or onto a topic of actual substance, then I quickly get rather bored. Fortunately, I discovered that most people’s #1 favorite topic of discussion is themselves, so if you give them that chance, all will be fine.

I would say that Anglos are more extroverted than most other Europeans, as it seems that in Europe society gets more introverted as you go east and north. It makes it hard to be introverted in America… ;)
JayMan
09/16/2012 at 10:35 AM (Edit)

Inbreeding strikes again:

PRAGUE — The Czech Republic has taken an unprecedented emergency measure and banned the sale of spirits with more than 20 percent alcohol content as it battles a wave of methanol poisonings that has already killed 19 people.

[...]

Heger said the ban could possibly take weeks. It is estimated that up to 20 percent of all the liquor in restaurants across the country is likely made on the black market

That the death toll from the poisonings reached 19 Friday after a 66-year-old woman was found dead in the northeastern city of Havirov and the first person was hospitalized in Prague also prompted the minister to take the step, Heger said in a brief statement late
Friday.

[...]

Dozens of people have been hospitalized, some in critical condition after drinking vodka and rum laced with methanol. The problem has appeared largely centered in northeastern Czech Republic.

Methanol is mainly used for industrial purposes, but unscrupulous criminal networks sometimes misuse it to illegally produce cheap liquor because it’s cheap and impossible to distinguish from real drinking alcohol.

hbd chick
09/17/2012 at 4:52 PM (Edit)

@jayman – “Dozens of people have been hospitalized, some in critical condition after drinking vodka and rum laced with methanol. The problem has appeared largely centered in northeastern Czech Republic.”

oops. not good. =/

somewhere i’ve got a quote — lord knows where i put it — about how a lot of the “human trafficking” coming out of eastern europe/the balkans is run by extended families/clans (including the women in those families). i’ll have to try to dig it up.
Justthisguy
09/17/2012 at 10:06 PM (Edit)

“Oh, John Ringo, No!” Look that up , Ma’am, it is quite funny in a somewhat creepy way, if one is of the female persuasion.
Justthisguy
09/17/2012 at 10:22 PM (Edit)

On introversion vs. extraversion when it comes to autism, I think that extravert auties are more likely to get their asses kicked when they are kids, than are introvert auties, who tend to hide out. I believe that I am one of the latter.
Greying Wanderer
09/17/2012 at 11:53 PM (Edit)

http://infoproc.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/swedish-height-in-20th-century.html

hbd chick
09/18/2012 at 8:22 PM (Edit)

@justthisguy – “I think that extravert auties are more likely to get their asses kicked when they are kids, than are introvert auties, who tend to hide out. I believe that I am one of the latter.”

me, too. although the quiet ones do get beaten up occasionally, too. =/ (my take-no-nonsense mother got the police after them. they never even looked at me again. (^_^) )
hbd chick
09/18/2012 at 8:23 PM (Edit)

@g.w. – re. the swedish height thing — cool! thnx.
JayMan
09/20/2012 at 6:19 PM (Edit)

Check this out (also in the Twitter feed, as with a lot of cool things I run across):

Will Humans Eventually All Look Like Brazilians? – Yahoo! News
Candid K9
09/21/2012 at 2:00 AM (Edit)

HBDChick — on clans: you might be interested in the HBD at work in the recent murders of two policewomen in Manchester, England. Guns and grenades were used, which is pretty unusual by English standards. The murders arose from a feud:

Police investigating the deaths of two officers in Greater Manchester have called for an end to a feud between “criminal families”.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-19660713

The suspect is called Dale Cregan:

The Irish surname Cregan has two possible origins. While it is certain that Creegan (a variant of Cregan) of Connacht is an anglicized form of the Gaelic O’Croidheagain, it would appear possible that Cregan of Munster and Leinster is an anglicized form of MacRiagain. The prefix “O” in O’Croidheagain signifies “grandson of” or “descendent” and indicates patronymic origin of the name, while the first name is derived from the Irish word “croidhe”, meaning heart…

http://www.creeganfamily.com/Creegan%20Name%20History.htm

Another famous crime family in Manchester is discussed here:

Dominic Noonan (born 1966)[1] is an English organised crime figure.[2] Dominic Noonan, with his brother Desmond “Dessie” Noonan, headed a criminal organisation or “crime firm” in Manchester, England during the 1980s and 1990s and is a member of one of Manchester’s most infamous crime families.[3] Noonan has more than 40 convictions for a wide range of offences including armed robbery, police assault, possession of firearms, prison escape and fraud[4] and has spent 22 years in prisons across Britain.[5] Although Noonan is alleged to have been involved in a number of gangland murders, he has never been convicted.[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominic_Noonan

Noonan/Nunan is the anglicized modern form of the well-attested Irish surname Ó Núanáin, which in turn appears to be descended through the Middle-Irish family name O’hIonmhaineáin from the Early-Irish Ua Nemhnainn, the cognomen of one of the three battalions of the 3rd-century Fianna Érieann.

http://www.nemhnain.com/the-noonan-name/

Manchester = Clanchester.
LInton Herbert
09/21/2012 at 4:41 AM (Edit)

@Jayman “Will Humans Eventually All Look Like Brazilians” Your link appears to start out ast the usual hate mail. By the end it’s clear that the writer has no clue about the fertility inplications of us all trying to homogenize humanity. I shall try to get a message to Natalie. I doubt I get a reaction.
JayMan
09/23/2012 at 7:33 AM (Edit)

@HBD Chick:

Be sure to check out some of the stuff in my Tweets. There’s lots of cool stuff in there that might be of interest to you, particularly for your linkfest that’s due, including an interesting post by Nelson.

Also, see Peter Frost’s blog… ;)
hbd chick
09/23/2012 at 9:45 AM (Edit)

@jayman – “…particularly for your linkfest that’s due….”

fyi: i have to confess to putting together the sunday linkfest posts on saturday evenings. (like i’d ever be up early enough on a sunday — or any day! — to get it ready for a 9:00 a.m. posting. ha! (~_^) )

i’ll go check out your tweets, tho…. (^_^)
hbd chick
09/23/2012 at 9:52 AM (Edit)

@jayman – “Also, see Peter Frost’s blog… ;)”

hey! nice map! (^_^) (^_^) (^_^)
hbd chick
09/23/2012 at 9:59 AM (Edit)

@candid k9 – “…the recent murders of two policewomen in Manchester, England.”

i saw that. that was pretty awful. =/

@candid k9 – “The murders arose from a feud: Police investigating the deaths of two officers in Greater Manchester have called for an end to a feud between ‘criminal families’.”

interesting! anybody know if these “criminal families” are some of those irish travellers? or are they just irish mafioso types? either way, not the sort of people you want in your country! =/

@candid k9 – “Manchester = Clanchester.”

heh.
hbd chick
09/23/2012 at 11:20 AM (Edit)

@jayman – from the brazilian article: “an archetype for the future of humanity, Stearns said: A few centuries from now, we’re all going to look like Brazilians.”

i wonder if he means the entire planet or just americans, ’cause i have a hard time picturing how it could work on a global level with 7+ billion people — over the long-term. what i mean is, you’d have to keep shuffling the 7+ billion people around — forever — going forward, otherwise you’d just wind up with new enclaves of special looking/behaving people (whatever they’d look/behave like in the future).

i guess what i’m saying is that, eventually, one would run into some large logistical problems.
hbd chick
09/23/2012 at 12:32 PM (Edit)

see announcement about open thread backup. (^_^)
Nelson
09/23/2012 at 8:38 PM (Edit)

@JayMan: thanks for the mention! You might’ve already seen this, but The Audacious Epigone’s latest blog post referenced your work.

On “Hispanics”: looks like Ann Coulter added some fuel to the fire; the Hispanic/Mexican conflation continues. :(

This is getting interesting – and may motivate me to publish future blog posts on the subject…
JayMan
09/25/2012 at 5:09 AM (Edit)

Check this out. Seems Singapore wants the Tiger Moms to retract their claws:

Tiger mothers in Singapore: Losing her stripes? | The Economist

Here’s the rationale:

But the anxiety behind the comments is that hard-studying Singaporeans lack creativity and an ability to think laterally. This is now seen as a competitive disadvantage in what are often called “knowledge economies”, where innovation and inventiveness are at a premium. Are the tiger mothers, Mr Lee seems to be wondering, now putting Singapore’s future prosperity at risk?

But I thought that the Singaporeans were HBD-aware? If so, they’d know that East Asians were at a disadvantage when it comes to creativity vs Europeans (possibly related to a lack of genes for traits such as bipolarity, ADD, and schizophrenia—all traits that boost creativity). But, nice to see this advice in lieu of the truth about the effectiveness of parenting (there isn’t much), but do we really expect parents there to change their ways much in that hyper-competitive society?
JayMan
09/27/2012 at 1:00 PM (Edit)

About the recent turmoil in Spain, I just spoke to a friend of mine from there, and let’s just say she’s rippin’ mad (strong anti-German, and anti-French sentiment). It sounds like she’s ready rumble. She chose to quit her job than work under the increasing harsh “austerity” measures that you and I know won’t accomplish much.

I’m not so sure that the EU will last much longer. I just hope that when it goes down that it doesn’t take our economy with it…
hbd chick
09/27/2012 at 1:15 PM (Edit)

@jayman – “I just hope that when it goes down that it doesn’t take our economy with it…”

i was just reading about spain today. the catalans want OUT — of spain, which is interesting, but maybe not so much the e.u. they seem more pro-e.u. than other spaniards, anyway. that’s the impression i’ve got. -??-

i think that, ultimately, the crashing and burning of the e.u. and the euro will take down the u.s. economy, too (and the chinese one as well) — maybe not at first, though. investors will be looking to invest their cash somewhere, and they may very well turn to the u.s. dollar — at least for a while. i mean, historically the dollar has always been a good bet, and old habits die hard. but our economy is in such a mess — the dollar is in such a mess — that i think it has to go down, too — eventually. =/

i do, though, look forward to the e.u. imploding. you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. (~_^) and a complete lack of and disregard for democracy. i do not look forward to the after-effects of its crash. =/
nomoreh1b
09/27/2012 at 6:27 PM (Edit)

I’ve seen various claims on what influences human fertility here. What I think might be interesting: a contest in which folks would predict just who would reproduce-and under what conditions. Basically track individuals over their lifetime.

Predictions might be in the form of _models_ or specific prediction about specific individuals. The point of the contest is to compare different models and different predictors.

I think that there are people who might make different decisions if they knew just whats the consequences of their decisions were. Eventually I’d like to see a calculator online(maybe a subscription service) that would explain to folks just what the impact of their decisions-or those of their children-are having on their anticipated fertility.
JayMan
09/27/2012 at 6:47 PM (Edit)

@HBD Chick:

“i think that, ultimately, the crashing and burning of the e.u. and the euro will take down the u.s. economy, too (and the chinese one as well) — maybe not at first, though. investors will be looking to invest their cash somewhere, and they may very well turn to the u.s. dollar — at least for a while. i mean, historically the dollar has always been a good bet, and old habits die hard. but our economy is in such a mess — the dollar is in such a mess — that i think it has to go down, too — eventually. =/”

Yes. I’ve told many people that the dirty little secret is that there will be no real lasting economic recovery: welcome to the new normal. Too many factors are conspiring against it, factors that the people in charge don’t seem to be addressing.

I’m hoping investment in the $US will stave off the problems of the likely slow collapse of the EU. But this is tough because a lot of players have a lot to lose (China, Russia, in addition to us).

But, of course, said collapse may not be so slow, because an explosive event could easily hasten the process. Here’s some happily volunteered quotes from my friend, (she’s from Galicia, BTW):

I hope it’s headed to a fight, that’s the only way of getting back what Merkel and her French friends have stolen from us.

They are draining our very blood from our veins.

I’m going to lose my job in some weeks because I didn’t accept the “new conditions” offered by the company. I’d rather die standing than live on my knees.

They are lowering the salaries and extending the working hours and reducing staff drastically and treating us like sh*t. I made my point loud and clear and I’m not the only one.

The European Union wants the southern countries to be the whore of the northern ones. We have the resources to live by ourselves. We don’t need any flea sucking our blood.

And if they are seeking blood, that’s probably what they are going to find.

They are turning the Mediterranean countries into a European version of the Third World…to furnish cheap workers…to look at them from a lower position and accept any imposition just because it comes from them. They are depriving the country from all its resources but they are probably forgetting a very important detail: people become brave when they don’t have anything left to lose…

Now if that sentiment is at all typical of what’s going on over there, things could be headed south, quick…

If there is an upside, this is all an experiment in HBD, as both we get to see the limitations of different peoples in the economic ability and their willingness to conform to standards imposed by the outside.
JayMan
09/27/2012 at 7:29 PM (Edit)

On another note, new blog post on sexism and discrimination: Leaks in the Pipeline Found?
LInton Herbert
09/28/2012 at 4:44 AM (Edit)

@hbdchick regarding EU ” and a complete lack of and disregard for democracy.” You are absolutely right and absolutley the only one I have ever known to say it. Well done.
LInton Herbert
09/28/2012 at 5:14 AM (Edit)

@nomoreh 1b “Eventually I’d like to see a calculator online(maybe a subscription service) that would explain to folks just what the impact of their decisions-or those of their children-are having on their anticipated fertility.” That’s a great idea. It would make money, which means people would notice.
Here’s a link:

http://nobabies.net/Orlando%20meeting.html

The posting goes on and on and points out the catastrophe this will lead to, but for your purposes the the Icelandic graphs are all you need. You’ll wand to ferret out the original paper, of course. But from that point on it should be pretty straighforward. Let us know when you get rich.
LInton Herbert
09/28/2012 at 5:24 AM (Edit)

@JayMan “there will be no real lasting economic recovery: welcome to the new normal. Too many factors ” True. And the one factor that is absolutely irresistable is the demographic one. No babies. No future. Sure fertility has leveled off some in the rich word. But it has leveled off at a lethally low level. There is a lot of money in the world still, but it won’t buy babies. For that you need third cousin marriages. Well maybe we don’t need THAT many babies, but if there is a solution then the solution is to move in that direction. There is a very serious question in my mind whether it is too late already. But I have little doubt that it is never going to happen.
hbd chick
09/28/2012 at 11:23 AM (Edit)

@jayman – “I’d rather die standing than live on my knees.”

that’s the spirit! (^_^) i wish her the best — and all the people in galicia — and spain — and southern europe — and northern europe. h*ck — i wish everybody the best! (^_^)

you know, on the one hand, i know that the piigs have fed happily at the e.u. trough for many years now, and are all corrupt to one degree or another — i know this because my people are in that group of piigs, so i know how it is — and so i also know that they HAVE to cut back. they have to follow through with this austerity stuff because otherwise their economies are not going to work. (well, what they all really need to do is to stop being so corrupt and start paying their taxes, but that’s not going to happen anytime soon….)

otoh, i also know that the leaders in all those countries — and very much the leaders of the e.u. — are also corrupt with questionable ties to the banks and the world of finance (just like our leaders), so i very much relate to your galician friend’s attitude. our so-called leaders are scr*wing us — why should we just sit back and take it? VOTE ‘EM OUT!

@jayman – “she’s from Galicia, BTW”

cool! one of a handful of places i’ve always wanted to go to (but haven’t made it to … yet).
hbd chick
09/28/2012 at 11:29 AM (Edit)

@linton – “You are absolutely right and absolutley the only one I have ever known to say it. Well done.”

oh, you need to hang around on some european blogs some more. (~_^) check out daniel hannan @the telegraph, uk, for example.
JayMan
09/29/2012 at 4:26 PM (Edit)

Here you go. Linton, you’ll also be interested in this:

Inbreeding Impression: Why inbreeding isn’t as bad as you think
LInton Herbert
09/29/2012 at 5:10 PM (Edit)

@JayMan “Here you go. Linton, you’ll also be interested in this:” And how! Thank you so very much. I followed the link to the essay by Alasdair Wilkins. Mostly he’s right. But he admits that classical Medelian genetics simply does not account for the reproductive advantage of third cousins. What’s more, he says quite cheerfully that accumulatinb inbreeding over multpile generations produces more bad effects from inbreeding, while providing a nifty diagram that proves that this cannot be true from the Mendelian perspective. He starts out tith a family of 2 parents, each with a recessive. So that’s fifty percent mutants. There are four children, one of whom we consider lost to the homozygous recessive deletrious gene. The three remaining have 6 alleles, two of which are the deleterious recessive. So the incidence of the gene is a third rather than a half. Successive inbred generations would reduce that futher.
And yet there is poor inbred Charles II of Spain. Somebody on this site said trenchantly, “data is not the pleural of anecdote.” But let’s accept him as an inbreeding horror show. His disabilites are unlikely to be genetic after that much inbreeding, so they have to be epigenetic(having to do with the control of genes). I have a computer model of epigenetic effects, and sure enough, there is a Goldilox zone. Too much inbreeding and too little are both bad.
In fact some folks did a study of inbred plants. When the seeds were grown in a medium that contained a demethylating agent (which would eliminate a lot of epigenetic effect) they grew into plants as healthy as the best. QED I should think. I shall take occasion to write Dr. Wilkins, but I can tell you how he will react. He will ignore it.
Again many thanks for the great reference.
sNoOOPy
09/29/2012 at 11:05 PM (Edit)

@LInton Herbert And yet there is poor inbred Charles II of Spain.

The Hapsburg gene pool was actually somewhat diverse. They were Emperors with territory all over Europe, and intermarried with many kingdoms, picking up a lot of interesting genes.

The Hapsburg motto was:
‘Bella gerant alii, tu, felix Austria, nube!’

If you don’t know Greek, that means:
‘Let others wage wars, but you, happy Austria, marry’

Which means they expanded their territory by marrying daughters of sonless families and inheriting their land.

Inbreeding coefficient of Charles II is: 0.254

====================
Charles II family tree:
====================

The first Hapsburg was a Guntram the Rich in 950, a count on the Swiss-German border, a long way from Spain.

They intermarried into other kingdoms and by 1300, they had territories around Vienna and Zurich.

In 1437 a Hapsburg married the daughter of Holy Roman Emperor and acquired Bohemia and Hungary.

Ernest, Duke of Austria married Cymburgis of Masovia. Cymburgis of Masovia introduced Hapsburg jaw into the Hapsburg dynasty. She was born in Warsaw. Her mother’s brother was the king of Poland.

In 1452 their son Frederick III married Eleanor of Portugal, from Portugal.

Their son Maximilian I married Mary of Burgundy (a Valois) and acquired the low countries in 1477.

Their son Philip I married Queen Joanna of Castile, from Spain.
Three of their children would be ancestors of Charles II in a non branching tree.

The three children:

1. One son married Isabella of Portugal a first cousin.

2. Second son married Anne of Bohemia and Hungary. She was the daughter of Vladislaus II who’s father was King Casimir IV of Poland and Great Duke of Lithuania.

3. One daughter married Christian II King of Denmark and Norway.

=================================
END IF
=================================

So, we have relatives from Switzerland, Germany, Austria, Bohemia, Hungary, Poland, Lithuania, Portugal, Spain, Burgundy, and Denmark.

The Spanish Habsburg dynasty went extinct in 1700.

The Role of Inbreeding in the Extinction of a European Royal Dynasty
It is speculated that the simultaneous occurrence in Charles II of two different genetic disorders: combined pituitary hormone deficiency and distal renal tubular acidosis, determined by recessive alleles at two unlinked loci
LInton Herbert
09/30/2012 at 5:08 AM (Edit)

@sNOOPY”So, we have relatives from Switzerland, Germany, Austria, Bohemia, Hungary, Poland, Lithuania, Portugal, Spain, Burgundy, and Denmark.” So I take it that Charles was not, in fact, inbred. Interesting indeed. That’s not what I usually hear. But I don’t think there’s any doubt that inbreeding depression is real.
BTW you are right, my Greek is limited. However I didn’t have much trouble understanding that motto, so I suspect it’s Latin. :o)
hbd chick
09/30/2012 at 9:07 AM (Edit)

@linton – “I don’t think there’s any doubt that inbreeding depression is real.”

inbreeding depression is real (from what i understand), but inbreeding+selection can lead to good things. that, after all, is how we get thoroughbreds, right? or, if cochran, hardy & harpending are right, high iqs in ashkenazi jews.
LInton Herbert
09/30/2012 at 10:17 AM (Edit)

@hbdchick “inbreeding depression is real (from what i understand), but inbreeding+selection can lead to good things” Oh absolutely. The cracker horse people here in Florida have a saying, “Inbreeding is line breeding that goes badly; line breeding is inbeeding that goes well.”
sNoOOPy
09/30/2012 at 7:44 PM (Edit)

@LInton Herbert — So I take it that Charles was not, in fact, inbred.

I wasn’t trying to say he wasn’t inbred.

If the Spanish royals of the 1500s had actually been inbred, they would have been fine. Instead they exogamously married the German-Austrian Holy Roman Emperor for political reasons. From them they received the habsburg-jaw. If you marry someone from the other valley, you get to share their genetic diseases that may be unknown in your own valley.

I think royal houses as having a reputation as being exemplars of inbreeding is exaggerated. They marry for political reasons, and establish an interconnected network of marriages all over Europe, as opposed to following a fbd system or having any concern at all for the genetic relationship of matches. If there is a period of close inbreeding, it is a byproduct of the political situation making close relatives the best choice at that particular time.

Contrast this with their subjects who might have been marrying within same village for 500 years or longer. Charles II of Spain ruled over the Basques who have been isolated long enough that the basque word for axe includes the root word for rock.

An aristocrat would have been much more outbred than the commoners around him.
sNoOOPy
09/30/2012 at 8:35 PM (Edit)

@LInton Herbert –

Interesting article on ideal population size:

Role of inbreeding depression and purging in captive
breeding and restoration programmes

Purging mildly deleterious recessives by drift
would be ineffective at very large or small populations;
highest effectiveness was observed at populations contain-
ing several hundred individuals in the examples provided
by Glémin (2003).

sNoOOPy
09/30/2012 at 8:49 PM (Edit)

@LInton Herbert — BTW you are right, my Greek is limited. However I didn’t have much trouble understanding that motto, so I suspect it’s Latin. :o)

Right, Greeks are the ones that write with algebra symbols instead of letters.
sNoOOPy
09/30/2012 at 11:31 PM (Edit)

@LInton Herbert — So I take it that Charles was not, in fact, inbred.

My point is not that he wasn’t inbred.

A period of inbreeding is worse for a family who has outbred ancestors, because they picked up more bad recessives (such as hands with only 5 fingers) in their travels.
A period of inbreeding would be less worse for a family with inbred ancestors because bad recessives have been weeded out already.

He was inbred, but he was a royal house whose ancestors would regularly travel a thousand miles to get married. They would also marry for political reasons with no concern for any relatedness scheme (like FBD).

If one of his subjects, a Basque family, whose ancestors married in the same village for a thousand years were to go through a phase of close inbreeding similar to Charles II family tree, they would be less likely to have bad recessives coming together because their gene pool has fewer bad recessives in it because they were expressed and removed by a period of long inbreeding. They had their own Charles II’s a thousand years ago.

Which is to say an outbred family is carrying around more unexpressed bad recessives around with him than an inbred family is. If they both start doing consanguinity, the outbred family is going to have more risk of bad recessives coming together.

An investigation of inbreeding depression and purging in captive pedigreed populations

since inbreeding increases the frequency of the deleterious homozygous genotype, selection against deleterious alleles is also increased during inbreeding, thereby providing an opportunity for a population to be ‘purged’ of its mutational load. Following purging, the fitness levels of the population may increase, possibly returning to or even exceeding those of a large, randomly mating population

inbred animals with inbred ancestry will be less susceptible to inbreeding depression than inbred animals with non-inbred ancestry as those inbred ancestors that are able to survive and to reproduce will be less likely to be carriers of deleterious alleles

ancestral inbreeding is able to significantly mitigate inbreeding depression.
LInton Herbert
10/01/2012 at 4:43 AM (Edit)

@sNOOPy “ancestral inbreeding is able to significantly mitigate inbreeding depression” Thank you for clarifying. That makes sense from a classical Mendelian standpoint. There is also evidence of an epigenetic mechanism, but that does not conflict with what you just said.
LInton Herbert
10/01/2012 at 4:45 AM (Edit)

@sNOOPy “Greeks are the ones that write with algebra symbols instead of letters.” lol
JayMan
10/03/2012 at 5:22 PM (Edit)

The naked truth about inbreeding (couldn’t resist):

Commissioner Marlene Ross’s Nude Photos To Cousin Lover Prompt Boynton Beach Blackmail Probe
hbd chick
10/04/2012 at 8:03 AM (Edit)

@jayman – “The naked truth about inbreeding….”

heh. (^_^)
hbd chick
10/04/2012 at 8:04 AM (Edit)

@linton – “The cracker horse people here in Florida have a saying, ‘Inbreeding is line breeding that goes badly; line breeding is inbeeding that goes well.’“

i love that! i’m gonna use that. (^_^)
rerevisionist
10/12/2012 at 11:07 AM (Edit)

This is entirely off-topic, but might cheer up some people.

http://www.nukelies.org presents evidence that nuclear weapons are, and always have been, a hoax. Nuclear power is probably also a fake. Maybe people will survive….

(I agree with justthisguy, a few months back, that it’s a pity there are so few intellectual women – my paraphrase)
JayMan
10/12/2012 at 11:36 AM (Edit)

@rerevisionist:

Right, because these are Photoshopped:

The 50th anniversary of Starfish Prime: the nuke that shook the world | Bad Astronomy | Discover Magazine

Water bomb | Bad Astronomy | Discover Magazine

Seriously, man…
JayMan
10/14/2012 at 7:08 AM (Edit)

The French, huh:

“A Declaration of War” – From the Youth of France – (English subs)
hbd chick
10/16/2012 at 11:38 AM (Edit)

@rerevisionist – jayman said: “Seriously, man…”

yeah, seriously. please don’t fill my comments threads with nonsense, thankuverymuch.
hbd chick
10/16/2012 at 11:50 AM (Edit)

@jayman – “The French, huh”

yeah, i saw that. the peasants are revolting…? oops.
JayMan
10/17/2012 at 12:08 AM (Edit)

Here you go:

A Whole New World | JayMan’s Blog
Nelson
10/19/2012 at 4:29 PM (Edit)

I know this is unrelated to the recent discussion, but there’s a new wave in the education “reform” front – homework reform! Some familiar trends emerge…

Down With Homework? A Look at a New Front in Education “Reform” :: Concourse Expressions
hbd chick
10/19/2012 at 4:43 PM (Edit)

@nelson – “Some familiar trends emerge…”

yup. if we just eliminate all tests and homework, no child will be left behind! yipee!
hbd chick
10/19/2012 at 4:44 PM (Edit)

@jayman – “A Whole New World”

so when do we leave? (^_^)
Nelson
10/19/2012 at 5:41 PM (Edit)

@hbd* chick: yep, no child will be left behind…but then no child will get ahead either. But hey, who gives a crap as long as outcomes are equal, right? :\
Justthisguy
10/21/2012 at 2:54 AM (Edit)

Sam Houston’s last public speech, from an hotel window in Galveston, on April 19, 1861:

“Let me tell you what is coming. After the sacrifice of countless millions of treasure and hundreds of thousands of lives, you may win Southern independence if God be not against you, but I doubt it. I tell you that, while I beliieve with you in the doctrine of states rights, the North is determined to preserve this Union.

They are not a fiery, impulsive people as you are, for they live in colder climates. But when they begin to move in a given direction, they move with the steady momentum and perseverance of a mighty avalanche, and what I fear is, they will overwhelm the South.”

Sam was quite the Pessimistic Realist.

His prediction came true, and I do deplore what happened, but the proudest boast I can make about my family is that all four of my Great-Grandfathers fought honorably against the United States of America.

We may have lost the fight, but you damn betcha we gave a good account of ourselves!
LInton Herbert
10/21/2012 at 4:43 AM (Edit)

@Justhistguy “We may have lost the fight, but you damn betcha we gave a good account of ourselves!” Thanks. I had family on both sides. The northern side didn’t get involved until Lee reached Gettysburg, and a great grandfather there look his militia against JEB Stuart and executed what he called, “A brilliant retreat if a little faster than would have been desirable” half way across the state. But as Houston said, he stuck it out and was there at Appomattox Court House. On the Southern side a great grand uncle took his led into the Peach Orchard and took such withering fire the line bent into a hairpin. Others said, “They marched out as if on parade.” So why is it that I only choke up when I think about my Southern ancestors?
Justthisguy
10/21/2012 at 8:54 AM (Edit)

Linton, you answered that question in the asking of it. Any thinking Southern man knew we had only a slight chance of winning, but participated anyway, hoping that valor would overcome cold-blooded crushing Puritanical industrial superiority. I must get my copy of “Albion’s Seed” back from that guy I lent it to.

Did you know that the first flag put up by U.S. Marines over Shuri Castle in Okinawa was the Confederate Battle Flag? (In the Second World War, the Mississippi, or crazy, branch of my family all went into the Marines, but the Georgia, or nerdy, branch, all went into the USAAF. My Dad , from GA, got to be a bit of a War Criminal by working for Curtis LeMay on Saipan.)
LInton Herbert
10/21/2012 at 11:38 AM (Edit)

@Justhisguy “we had only a slight chance of winning” It was a matter of principle, wasn’t it? The First American War or sessecion was supposed to establish the principle that the government served with the consent of the governed, and if it did not serve the purposes of the goverened they were free, indeed obliged, to change it. On my father’s side the family had stopped farming and pretty much become preachers, but Chesley – the guy at the Peach Orchard – was from South Carolina and joined with the first wave. He fought almost to the end. On my mother’s side we were sturdy dirt farmers near Gettyburg. No interest in industry. We still work the same farm. On that side of the family the only subsequent milliatry action was an uncle who was supposed to fly belly gunner in WW II over Germany, but the belly guns were a death trap and were removed. So his only job was when the bomb mechanism jammed he had to go down to the bomb bay and stand on a six inch wide strip of metal and kick the bombs loose. Said it was scary. Couldn’t count the times he wet himself over Berlin. We was a descendant, straight male line, from the man who got the boats together for Washington to use crossing the Deleware. On Daddy’s side, he was the only one who got into the millitary. Intelligence. He never told us what he did but he had more medals than Normal Schwarzkopf.
That first American flag over Okinawa makes sense. Doubt we ever see it on the history channel. Wow.
hbd chick
10/21/2012 at 11:49 AM (Edit)

@justthisguy – “Sam Houston’s last public speech, from an hotel window in Galveston….”

great quote! thnx. (^_^)
hbd chick
10/21/2012 at 12:00 PM (Edit)

@linton – “The First American War or sessecion was supposed to establish the principle that the government served with the consent of the governed, and if it did not serve the purposes of the goverened they were free, indeed obliged, to change it.”

i grew up amongst the northerners, and despite never hearing anything along the lines of “the war of northern aggression” until i was an adult, i remember getting into a fierce argument with my sixth-grade history teacher when we were learning about the civil war, ’cause i couldn’t see why the southern states shouldn’t have been permitted to secede (she kept insisting it wasn’t allowed) — ’cause we had JUST finished learning about the u.s. constitution a week or two earlier, and i couldn’t recall ANY clause saying that states were not allowed to leave the union. (~_^) boy, was she mad at me — the usually quiet, well-behaved girl in the front row who suddenly became such a nuisance. (^_^)
LInton Herbert
10/21/2012 at 12:13 PM (Edit)

@hbd chick “i couldn’t recall ANY clause saying that states were not allowed to leave the union” You started thinking for yourself right early. And you know something that boggles my mind? The European Union was put together without any mechanism for countries to leave without a war. And they got a Nobel PEACE prize? A whole continent gone mad. Must be inbreeding, eh?
Justthisguy
10/21/2012 at 8:40 PM (Edit)

@Linton: “The Death of the Ball Turret Gunner” has been one of my favorite poems since I was a little kid. Curiously, the ball turret turns out to have been statistically the safest position in the bombers, with fewest casualties. The ball turret was a creepy fighting position, though, with one’s ass and privates pointed right at the enemy, protected only by a small thin piece of armor.

John Derbyshire has a recording of himself reading the poem, on his website.
sNoOOPy
10/21/2012 at 9:22 PM (Edit)

@LInton Herbert –
The First American War or sessecion was supposed to establish the principle that the government served with the consent of the governed, and if it did not serve the purposes of the goverened they were free, indeed obliged, to change it.

consent of the governed

Which is to say by a majority vote of people within the boundary of a district.

Wealth transfer via taxation cannot cross the border of a district.

A citizen of San Diego can vote to raise taxes on a citizen in Boston because they are both in the same country. He cannot raise taxes on a citizen of Tijuana, because they are in different countries.

A voter, being a rational agent, will do the rational thing and try to have taxation emphasized on other people, and have spending emphasized on his own people.

In 1850′s, tariffs were 90% of Federal revenue, and the South paid 75% of the tariffs. This with 20% of of the country’s free population.

Federal tax per capita ratio of free Southerner to Northener was 12:1.

Because the north had a majority in the legislature, they could have taxation burden others more than themselves. For example the 1828 ‘Tariff of Abomination’:
North: for 102 against 44
south for 3 against 50
Two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

Also, because the North had a majority in the legislature, they could have the Federal budget spent for the benefit of the North, like railroads. The Confederate constitution mentions this specifically:

nor shall any duties or taxes on importations from foreign nations be laid to promote or foster any branch of industry

neither this, nor any other clause…shall ever be construed to delegate the power to Congress to appropriate money for any internal improvement intended to facilitate commerce;

By seceding, they would be in a different country from Northern voters, and not able to be taxed by them. An invisible line on the map would be drawn, impervious to the movement of tariff revenues.

Missouri Senator Thomas Hart Benton, 1828
Virginia, the two Carolinas, and Georgia, may be said to defray three-fourths of the annual expense of supporting the Federal Government; and of this great sum, annually furnished by them, nothing or next to nothing is returned to them, in the shape of Government expenditures. That expenditure flows in an opposite direction – it flows northwardly, in one uniform, uninterrupted, and perennial stream.

No taxation with (others) representation.

made by the consent of the people (excepting those people)
LInton Herbert
10/22/2012 at 3:53 AM (Edit)

@justhisguy “The ball turret was a creepy fighting position” I had never hear that there were fewer deaths ub the ball turret. Perhaps the position gave the gunner a little added motivation. I’ll check out that poem. Thanks.
LInton Herbert
10/22/2012 at 4:00 AM (Edit)

@sNoOOPy “That expenditure flows in an opposite direction – it flows northwardly, in one uniform, uninterrupted, and perennial stream.No taxation with (others) representation.made by the consent of the people (excepting those people)” Thanks Wow. I had no idea. Do you suppose the ongoing disintegration of Europe has something like that at root?
Justthisguy
10/23/2012 at 11:06 PM (Edit)

Linton, one of the more revolting videos I have seen is some gun camera film from a German fighter attacking a straggling B-17 from underneath. It is obvious that the ball turret gunner is already dead, so the German guy has no restrictions on shooting whichever part of the bomber he likes to shoot at.
LInton Herbert
10/24/2012 at 4:06 AM (Edit)

@justhisguy ” one of the more revolting videos I have seen” blood curdling
sNoOOPy
10/24/2012 at 7:27 AM (Edit)

@LInton Herbert — ongoing disintegration of Europe has something like that at root?

Things like that would be the least of their problems.
LInton Herbert
10/24/2012 at 8:30 AM (Edit)

@sNoOOPy “Things like that would be the least of their problems.” Yes. From the headlines you’d think that the flow of money was the issue, but there is that demographic thing. Too few babies where they are most needed.
Justthisguy
10/25/2012 at 4:37 PM (Edit)

@Linton: All’s fair in Love and War.
LInton Herbert
10/25/2012 at 6:45 PM (Edit)

@Justhisguy “Linton: All’s fair in Love and War.” Really? That’s great. You mean women follow the Geneva convention? Wonderful. News. But great.
hbd chick
10/25/2012 at 6:47 PM (Edit)

@linton – “You mean women follow the Geneva convention? Wonderful. News. But great.”

(^_^) (^_^) (^_^) (^_^) (^_^)
Justthisguy
10/25/2012 at 7:39 PM (Edit)

Ahh, what I think I meant was that in both Love and War, nasty cheating often succeeds.

I think of an episode in Saburo Sakai’s autobiography. He was cruising around in his Zero and spotted an American in a P-39, droning on obliviously, straight and level. Sakai came up behind and under him, totally unobserved, and spent some time reading the labels on the access doors and counting the rivets. The bonehead in the P-39 continued to drone along, head up and locked, straight and level.

After a while, Sakai looked at his gas gauge and decided it was time to shit or get off the pot. He dropped back a bit, pulled up a bit, and just touched the triggers of his guns. The P-39 blew up spectacularly.

Sakai said he felt like a criminal, a murderer, for doing that, because it was so easy. But, well, yes, all is fair in love and war.

When Sakai got back home, his plane captain told him that he had expended exactly four rounds, one from each of his guns.
sNoOOPy
10/25/2012 at 11:19 PM (Edit)

@Justthisguy –
came up behind and under him, totally unobserved

That is more than a majority of the cases of all planes shot down. Simply because of the near-impossibility of hitting a target moving 250mph under any other circumstances than that.

If you’re outside and you hear a plane droning overhead, and you try to look for it, it is very hard to find, even though you have the sound to help, it’s painted with white and red stripes, an creeping along at 130 mph.

If you were in a plane too, you wouldn’t be able to hear anything, and you have to look through a lattice window that you can’t get out to clean if it gets dirty. And it would have sky-blue paint on its belly and be going 450mph.
LInton Herbert
10/26/2012 at 4:53 AM (Edit)

“Sakai said he felt like a criminal, a murderer, for doing that, because it was so easy” Well yes, he felt a little bad in a wartime situation. Ever heard of anybody feeling bad about what they had done in a love situation?
Justthisguy
10/26/2012 at 10:35 PM (Edit)

Well, yes. One of my favorite movies is “Dangerous Liasons.” It includes both Sex and Death, or Love and War, if you will. All who claim to be involved in Magick insist that Sex and Death are the most powerful things one can use in Making Magick. As a professing Christian, I am of course forbidden to engage in Magick.

There is a plenitude about Sex and Death in the Bible, anyway.
Justthisguy
10/26/2012 at 10:45 PM (Edit)

Ah, Snoopy, what I meant to try to get across was that the P-39 pilot was droning along straight and level in a dangerous combat zone in Condition White, oblivious to feeling eye tracks on the back of his neck, or fingerspitzengefuehl. He should at least have been doing clearing turns at random intervals, just to be properly paranoid, and thus live longer. IMHO, it is better to live longer though suffering from cortisol poisoning, than to die sooner from being an oblivious doodah.
Justthisguy
10/28/2012 at 11:11 PM (Edit)

Dammit, I had a witty and erudite comment almost ready to post when my stupid Ubuntu box decided to reset itself!

Anyway, it was about the Neanderthal theory of autism. I have been reading up on that lately, and y’all know I’m pretty sure I have “tendencies and traits”, so I had the housemate, who has been a professional masseur, feel my skull, anthropometrically.

Large brow ridges? Check. Small chin? Check. Wide-set eyes in deep sockets? Check. Bulges on side of skull? Check. Occipital “bun”? Check. Flat spot on skull toward back? Check. 7 7/8 hat size? Check. I seem to have the head of a ‘thal.

What I’ve noticed, m’self: Excessively earnest and socially awkward? Check. Fairly large trunk and short legs? Check. Extra-flexy joints? Check. Mysterious gut issues? Check. “Age-inappropriate relationships”? Check. (I get along quite well with kids and old people, as long as they are fellow strange people.) Pretty smart? Check.(my old SAT score will easily get me into Mensa.) Problems getting laid and getting hired? Check. Keeping a youthful appearance into middle age? Check (I have been carded buying likker well into my forties.) Mysteriously hassled by cops when lawfully minding own business? Check.

So, yeah, if had a hundred bucks to spare, I’d consult 23andme to see just how much ‘thal I have in me. I suspect that I have more than most.
JayMan
10/30/2012 at 2:27 PM (Edit)

Here you go:

A golden age of sibling comparisons | Gene Expression | Discover Magazine
hbd chick
10/31/2012 at 12:17 AM (Edit)

@justthisguy – “Dammit, I had a witty and erudite comment almost ready to post when my stupid Ubuntu box decided to reset itself!”

i hate when that happens. (~_^)

@justthisguy – “So, yeah, if had a hundred bucks to spare, I’d consult 23andme to see just how much ‘thal I have in me.”

you totally should! although, the longer you wait, the cheaper it’s gonna be. in a few years it’ll prolly be $100 for your entire genome! (i exaggerate … a bit. but, still!)
hbd chick
10/31/2012 at 11:12 AM (Edit)

@jayman – “Here you go: A golden age of sibling comparisons”

yeah. good stuff. thanks!

important to remember — very important to remember — that all those coefficients of relationship and coefficients of kinship are just probabilities. i mentioned it briefly in this post that the probable amount of dna that is identical in first cousins is 6.25%, but the standard deviation is ±2.4%.

i look forward to when a large number of genomes have been analyzed across many, many (many!) families so we can have a true idea of what the typical relatedness between the different family members is. (^_^) (kind-of like how we’re now getting more accurate estimates of mutation rates via sequencing.)

edit: the only guaranteed inheritance is that you get half your chromosomes from your mom and half from your dad (unless there is some screw-up). but even then, you do not get half your dna from your mom and half from your dad — the inheritance is uneven (’cause of the size of the x- and y-chromosomes). it’s even more so with siblings and further down the line ’cause of recombination. you really don’t know what you’re going to get!
JayMan
11/09/2012 at 5:14 AM (Edit)

@HBD Chick:

” the only guaranteed inheritance is that you get half your chromosomes from your mom and half from your dad (unless there is some screw-up). but even then, you do not get half your dna from your mom and half from your dad — the inheritance is uneven (’cause of the size of the x- and y-chromosomes). it’s even more so with siblings and further down the line ’cause of recombination. you really don’t know what you’re going to get!”

I wonder about this. I’ve noticed that in cases of parental favoritism, such as which parent the a child sides with after the parents split, seems to have something to do with similarity of that child to one parent over the other. Now of course, this shouldn’t be so, since all sibs are (give or take a few, as you noted) equally related to both parents…
JayMan
11/09/2012 at 5:16 AM (Edit)

Here you go, the “duh!” moment of the day (though it’s good to have more proof):

Are Geeky Couples More Likely to Have Kids with Autism?: Scientific American

So much for the vaccine hypothesis to explain autism rates in places like silicon valley. In hindsight, how dumb was that?
JayMan
11/09/2012 at 5:38 PM (Edit)

And following the previous:

Is Everyone on the Autism Spectrum? — New York Magazine

I think that they see a false dichotomy between the ubiquity of autistic traits and the fact that only a few are severely afflicted to the point of disability. Yes, so many people think they are on the spectrum because, frankly, a lot of people are. The fact that we want to think of it as something that you are or you’re not is clouding their reasoning.
hbd chick
11/12/2012 at 3:42 PM (Edit)

@jayman – “The fact that we want to think of it as something that you are or you’re not is clouding their reasoning.”

yes. i think a lot of people have a hard time (for whatever reasons) conceptualizing a spectrum. (*h.chick shrugs shoulders*)
hbd chick
11/12/2012 at 3:43 PM (Edit)

@jayman – “So much for the vaccine hypothesis to explain autism rates in places like silicon valley. In hindsight, how dumb was that?”

pretty dumb!
hbd chick
11/12/2012 at 4:07 PM (Edit)

@jayman – “I wonder about this. I’ve noticed that in cases of parental favoritism, such as which parent the a child sides with after the parents split, seems to have something to do with similarity of that child to one parent over the other. Now of course, this shouldn’t be so, since all sibs are (give or take a few, as you noted) equally related to both parents…”

well, it’s got to be that you get half your chromosomes from each parent (except for some weird copying errors) — that’s just how it works.

i wonder if the strong similarities between some kids and one or the other of their parents has got something to do with genomic impriting. -?-

i used to know two big families (9 kids in one and 10 in the other) when i was younger, and i always thought it was funny that in the 9-kid family, 7 of the kids were really like their dad and just 2 like their mom, whereas in the 10-kid family, more were like their mom than their dad. at the time i thought something along the lines of: well i guess the dad (in the first family) or mom (in the second) has “stronger genes.” no idea if that’s at all right or not.

(as a total side note: six of the kids in these two families, i.e. three from one and three from the other, married each other. (^_^) )
JayMan
11/13/2012 at 10:45 AM (Edit)

@HBD Chick:

“i think a lot of people have a hard time (for whatever reasons) conceptualizing a spectrum. (*h.chick shrugs shoulders*)”

“‘So much for the vaccine hypothesis to explain autism rates in places like silicon valley. In hindsight, how dumb was that?’

pretty dumb!”

Point 2 explains point 1… ;)
JayMan
11/13/2012 at 10:47 AM (Edit)

Here you go:

Millions of lonely people: The tragic legacy of the Left’s war on families | Mail Online

My question: is it really the Left, or is it outbreeding and English individualism doing their work?
sNoOOPy
11/13/2012 at 1:41 PM (Edit)

@JayMan — Are Geeky Couples More Likely to Have Kids with Autism?: Scientific American

12.5 percent of fathers of children with autism were engineers, compared with only 5 percent of fathers of children without autism.

These types of people are likely to have high incomes, so it could be that affluence is the correlation.

autism correlated with income

Autism correlation to wealth affirmed
“Affluent youngsters were almost twice as likely as the poorest children to have autism. … But even among children with no autism diagnosis, the richest children displayed the behaviors and signs of autism 39% more often those in the poorest neighborhoods.”

Wealthier people are more likely to:
1. Live in high population density urban areas
2. Have busier social lives
3. Move more frequently.
They would be exposed to more people and therefore more infections during pregnancy and early life than the poor because of this.

Flu During Pregnancy Linked to Autism, Says Survey
“Mothers who reported having the flu during pregnancy were at least twice as likely to have a child with autism as those who did not report having the flu, according to new survey results from a Danish study.”
sNoOOPy
11/13/2012 at 1:58 PM (Edit)

@JayMan —
“Is Everyone on the Autism Spectrum? — New York Magazine
has adduced such telltale evidence as … verbal glitches—possibly the reason for the ever-present teleprompters,”

Apparently, politicians so infrequently use teleprompters that it is notable when one does.
sNoOOPy
11/13/2012 at 3:30 PM (Edit)

@JayMan —
“Is Everyone on the Autism Spectrum? — New York Magazine
From Asperger’s to “Asperger’s,” how the spectrum became quite so all-inclusive.
…Is every 8-year-old boy who is obsessed with statistics on it?
…the diagnosis didn’t exist prior to 1981″

I think that the concept of autism spectrum/asperigus is an artifact of the fact that there’s a lot less mental effort required to get along in daily life because of the assistance of modern technology.

At the store the clerk passes the items over the bar-code scanner and you put your credit card in the slot and everything is automated. No mental calculation is required. A trained monkey could do it.

Thirty years ago you had to type the price into the cash register and you paid with dollar bills and coins. You have to do a little more work, but a machine is doing all the math calculations. A monkey wouldn’t quite be able to do it.

A hundred years ago you didn’t have cash registers so you had to do all the math in your head. But you at least had a monetary system based on the decimal system. If you were British you had this:

2 halfpence = 1 penny (1d)
3 pence = 1 thruppence (3d)
6 pence = 1 sixpence (a ‘tanner’) (6d)
12 pence = 1 shilling (a bob) (1s)
2 shillings = 1 florin ( a ‘two bob bit’) (2s)
2 shillings and 6 pence = 1 half crown (2s 6d)
5 shillings = 1 Crown (5s)
(remember, the abbreviation for penny is is not ‘p’, but ‘d’ for denarius)

The monkey would be in way over his head.

300 years ago in Colonial America, coins from many foreign kingdoms were in circulation. Spanish “pieces of eight”, English shillings, Dutch “lion dollars”, Massachusetts Silver. Each with a different units of denomination, varying levels of debasement, and many are clipped. You would need to be a skilled numismatist just to make a purchase. And no one would consider you “geeky” because of it.

The Coins of Colonial and Early America

in 1711, the English ship…New York City…sank…contained 8 English coins, 22 Dutch coins, 126 pieces of Massachusetts silver, 5 coins from Spain and 504 New World Spanish coins.

Ancient people had need for education and smarts too.
At 4,000 years ago, Babylonian had a modern system of mathematics.
Babylonian_mathematics
They also built pyramids and Stonehenge and had calendars, calculated the size of the earth.

3700 years ago there was rent, loans, interest, doctors, lawyers, international trade routes, etc.
The Code of Hammurabi 1772 BC
45. If a man rent his field for tillage for a fixed rental,…
48. If any one owe a debt for a loan,…
100. . . . interest for the money, as much as he has received, he shall give a note therefor…
102. If a merchant entrust money to an agent (broker) for some investment, …
104. If a merchant give an agent corn, wool, oil, or any other goods to transport, the agent shall give a receipt for the amount, and compensate the merchant therefor. …
119. If any one fail to meet a claim for debt…
215. If a physician make a large incision with an operating knife and cure it, …
224. If a veterinary surgeon perform a serious operation ….
LInton Herbert
11/14/2012 at 4:37 AM (Edit)

@Jayman “My question: is it really the Left, or is it outbreeding and English individualism doing their work?” Wow. That’s what outbreeding will give you. Maybe there was a deliberate element, too.
LInton Herbert
11/14/2012 at 4:40 AM (Edit)

@snoopy “Wealthier people are more likely to:
1. Live in high population density urban areas
2. Have busier social lives
3. Move more frequently.” Yep. And marry outside their circle of kin I expect. I got no decent evidence, but let’s say I have a prejudice in the direction of a connection.
bjk
11/16/2012 at 10:08 AM (Edit)

White guilt, I was thinking about it. Steve Sailer thinks that white guilt has nothing to do with guilt but with status striving. But status doesn’t seem an adequate explanation, and it’s not really very fair to liberals, who say they have honest intentions, and why not? So then what explains the really deep emotional bitterness many liberals feel towards southerners? Not that they’ve ever met somebody with a confederate bumper sticker, but the disdain for Bubba goes deeper than the surface. So then I thought about a wife marrying a new husband. Suddenly she’s dependent on him and his income, maybe on her parents if things go bad, and then on her in-laws, in that order. But if the extended family is weak and distant, and the parents are poor or on bad terms with her, she rightly sees herself in a very vulnerable situation. So she votes for democrats. Compare her with someone who marries a cousin. Now she is not dependent on just her husband, but her husband depends on her also, and there is a strong reinforcement of the marriage from the in-laws.

So in the perspective of both women, there are three kinds of people: nuclear family, in-laws, and strangers. The first woman, dependent to a great extent on her nuclear family, looks to the strangers as an insurance policy, either literally (by buying insurance) or through the state. But the second women sees the state as simply strangers – she is much better off relying on her extended family, which is large enough to serve as insurance, and includes her in-laws.

So you might figure these two cases are symmetrical, but they’re not. Lady a indirectly relies on lady b, but not vice-versa. Lady b doesn’t think about a at all, except to try to avoid the revenuer. But lady a gets spittle-spewing furious at b if she can’t rely on b, but b just shrugs her shoulders. Not her problem.

So to get back to liberal guilt, what we call liberal guilt is really altruistic punishment directed against other whites (blacks may be the plaintiff but are not really party to the dispute). This altruistic punishment is directed at whites (crackers, bubbas and other racists) who do not engage in stranger-stranger reciprocity via the state ie are shirking their duties.
bjk
11/16/2012 at 10:29 AM (Edit)

So white guilt is not misnamed – it’s the attempt to makes other whites feel guilty, not any feeling of guilt whites feel towards blacks.
LInton Herbert
11/16/2012 at 11:46 AM (Edit)

@fjk “White guilt, I was thinking about it.” I think your analysis is excellent. It’s got to be right. It makes too much sense to be wrong.
LInton Herbert
11/16/2012 at 11:54 AM (Edit)

@bjk (sorry I got your handle wrong last time) “it’s the attempt to makes other whites feel guilty, not any feeling of guilt whites feel towards blacks” That’s how it strikes me. I doubt you are old enough to remember, but you can get a very good feel by watching “Dumbo” and taking a look at the crows. Disney was not always honest in his message (remember the lemmings being thrown off a cliff in Canada by a machine to demonstrate lemmings leaping to their death in Norway) but his graphics were generally above reproach. The hunters in Bambi, the sound track, were not shooting ducks. They were trap shooters. The pace is different and the cartoon is so good you can tell the difference.

Well the crows are definitely middle class. That was what is was like then. The gap between white income and black has widened drastically and the incarceration rate of black people has gone through the roof since then. There were five black owned banks in Florida then, none now. All this at enormous cost. If that doesn’t make those who did it feel guilty, and it doesn’t, they are incapable of guilt.
hbd chick
11/16/2012 at 2:26 PM (Edit)

@bjk – “So to get back to liberal guilt, what we call liberal guilt is really altruistic punishment directed against other whites….”

that’s really good, bjk! so good i made it its own post. (^_^)

thanks!
JayMan
11/18/2012 at 7:52 AM (Edit)

Here you go:

Glorious holiday! « JayMan’s Blog

(Courtesy George Takei) :)
aspic
11/19/2012 at 4:44 PM (Edit)

hbd chick, why don’t you ever use CAPITALIZATION?

Is it in order to exaggerate you feminine qualities?
hbd chick
11/19/2012 at 7:34 PM (Edit)

@aspic – “hbd chick, why don’t you ever use CAPITALIZATION? Is it in order to exaggerate you feminine qualities?”

why don’t you double check you typing/spelling? is it in order to exaggerate you (fill in the blank) qualities? (~_^)
Justthisguy
11/23/2012 at 9:00 PM (Edit)

On cash registers: My Dad’s first real job was as a cashier at an A&P grocery store, back around 1932 or so. There were no cash registers. He added up the total with a pencil on the grocery sack, and invited the customer to check his arithmetic.Basic literacy and numeracy were assumed to be possessed by all, back then.

Lately, I amazed a cashier at a local Publix by calculating the sales tax in my head, and handing her the exact change. Third-grade arithmetic, that was.
hbd chick
11/24/2012 at 9:49 AM (Edit)

@justthisguy – “Lately, I amazed a cashier at a local Publix by calculating the sales tax in my head, and handing her the exact change. Third-grade arithmetic, that was.”

heh. (^_^) it can be easy to astound some people. (~_^)
JayMan
11/29/2012 at 7:55 AM (Edit)

Here you go:

Happiest Place On Earth?
hbd chick
11/29/2012 at 10:43 PM (Edit)

@jayman – “Happiest Place On Earth?”

ha! (^_^) i’m gonna make that my new wallpaper. (^_^)
JayMan
12/01/2012 at 11:10 PM (Edit)

Peter Frost delving into your area of interest:

Evo and Proud: Origins of English individualism
JayMan
12/02/2012 at 7:26 PM (Edit)

See this:

Vdare

Once the Hindu-Indians take over the whole IT department (Hindu only IT ghetto), the following series of events takes place…

hbd chick
12/03/2012 at 8:24 AM (Edit)

@jayman – “Once the Hindu-Indians take over the whole IT department (Hindu only IT ghetto), the following series of events takes place…”

yes, i saw that! i want to sit down one day and study the different divisions the author of the comment described — see how they track (if they do) with how things are in india. interesting comment!
JayMan
12/05/2012 at 9:17 AM (Edit)

Here you go:

And the most corrupt nation this year is…. (+video) – CSMonitor.com
JayMan
12/06/2012 at 7:03 AM (Edit)

Best escalator ever

What do you think?
hbd chick
12/06/2012 at 9:16 AM (Edit)

@jayman – best escalator. ever! (^_^)

that’s awesome! (^_^) there’s a youtube video (w/groovy music):

JayMan
12/07/2012 at 8:19 AM (Edit)

@HBD Chick:

“that’s awesome! (^_^) there’s a youtube video (w/groovy music)”

Nice!
JayMan
12/07/2012 at 8:21 AM (Edit)

Seems Americans are becoming their own people:

The emergence of a genetically unique population in Midwestern United States
hbd chick
12/07/2012 at 9:06 AM (Edit)

@jayman – “Seems Americans are becoming their own people”

that is so cool! thanks!

i wonder if anyone’s done a study(/studies) like that on populations in other regions of the u.s. (or canada for that matter)? anyone ever compare, for instance, (true) new englanders to the english/east anglians?
JayMan
12/08/2012 at 7:12 AM (Edit)

@HBD Chick:

Good question.

Actually, for my own purposes, I’d love to see White Americans across the country genotyped, so we could get an idea of what their true ancestry is, and not the BS self-reported one they give us.
JayMan
12/08/2012 at 7:12 AM (Edit)

The new Walmart logo

Explains a lot doesn’t it?
JayMan
12/09/2012 at 8:33 AM (Edit)

Here you go. An article in the comments at my blog that seems part and parcel to what’s discussed here.
JayMan
12/11/2012 at 6:50 PM (Edit)

Check out this map

Looks like you may be in for more answers to some of your questions about relatedness around the world.
JTGW
12/14/2012 at 12:49 PM (Edit)

Is this you, HBD Chick, or an impostor?

http://chylian.deviantart.com/art/HBD-Chick-With-Curly-Hair-and-Spider-Webs-337830352

If it is you, do you normally have curly hair, and do you like spiders?
hbd chick
12/15/2012 at 7:19 AM (Edit)

@jtgw – “If it is you, do you normally have curly hair, and do you like spiders?””

ha! no, not me and not my hair. i’ve got nuthin’ against spiders though. (^_^)
JayMan
12/20/2012 at 8:00 PM (Edit)

So it seems my little slapped-together pic of the Tau Ceti system compared to our own is a bit of a hit on Google Images (go ahead and Google it :) ), and is directing a lot of traffic to my blog!

Of course, I can only imagine what most of these people think when they see the other stuff on my blog… ;)
hbd chick
12/21/2012 at 6:34 AM (Edit)

@jayman – “So it seems my little slapped-together pic of the Tau Ceti system compared to our own is a bit of a hit on Google Images (go ahead and Google it :) ), and is directing a lot of traffic to my blog!”

oh, that is so funny! (^_^) (when are we leaving for tau ceti, btw??)

@jayman – “Of course, I can only imagine what most of these people think when they see the other stuff on my blog… ;)”

shock and horror! (~_^)
JayMan
12/21/2012 at 7:53 AM (Edit)

@HBD Chick

“when are we leaving for tau ceti, btw??”

Well we really should leave today seeing that this is the last day of life here on Earth and all… ;)
JayMan
12/21/2012 at 7:54 AM (Edit)

Here you go:

China: so corrupt even the police are protesting – YouTube
JayMan
12/21/2012 at 1:39 PM (Edit)

@HBD Chick:

“@jayman – ‘Of course, I can only imagine what most of these people think when they see the other stuff on my blog… ;)’

shock and horror! (~_^)”

No kidding.
Justthisguy
12/21/2012 at 4:15 PM (Edit)

Oh, Man, Jayman! You are not kidding. I gave that post of yours a cursory look and went all OMG! Look, boys and girls, as a professing Christian I believe that we are all equal in the sight of God as valuable souls to him, but not necessarily otherwise.

Look: Some of us are smart, and some of us are dumb. Some of us are mean and nasty, and some of us are excessively wussy. Some of us are industrious, and some of us are slackers (I plead guilty on the slacker question), some of us are big and strong and young, some of us are old and feeble, some of us like to hang out with other humans, some of us like to go off by themselves, some of us are “slender nervous people” (as Barney Fife said), some of us look like tackles for pro football teams, some of us are natural-born sweety-pies, some of us are natural-born assholes….

I could go on, but I think you catch my drift. Oh, and then there are the differences between the Menzes and the Wimminzes…!
hbd chick
12/21/2012 at 5:06 PM (Edit)

@justthisguy – “…some of us are slackers….”

*hbd chick sheepishly raises her hand…* (~_^)
Justthisguy
12/22/2012 at 12:10 AM (Edit)

And then there is seniority. I write in the military sense of the word. That is, there are men to whom I defer who are chronologically younger than I am, but they are nonetheless senior to me in the social hierarchy. For instance, my Pastor and I were playing “Guess my age” the other day, and I figured he was about my age (I am into my seventh decade.) I was surprised to hear him say that he is only 47, that is, young enough to be my kid. I still address him as “Sir”,
Just as I did Cap’n Lex before he died, and as I address Major Donovan over at Castle Argghhh! All three of those guys are chronologically younger than I am, but they are senior to me in their walk in The World.
Nelson
12/31/2012 at 6:11 PM (Edit)

Heh…I slack off at times myself; ’tis not necessarily a good thing, but it’s the truth.
BTW, happy New Year hbd* chick! I owe you belated thanks for linking to my Hispanic HBD primer a few months (I promise you there’s much more to come on that front next year); plus, of all the referrers to my blog, your blog came in at #5…so thanks for that too! :-)
Nelson
12/31/2012 at 6:13 PM (Edit)

That should read “…a few months ago…”
hbd chick
12/31/2012 at 6:54 PM (Edit)

@nelson – “I owe you belated thanks for linking to my Hispanic HBD primer a few months (I promise you there’s much more to come on that front next year); plus, of all the referrers to my blog, your blog came in at #5…so thanks for that too! :-)”

you’re very welcome! i look forward to more posts. (^_^) and happy new year to you, too. (^_^)

i thought the open thread (up there ↑) was getting too unwieldy being so long, so i deleted all the comments starting from 02/19/11 through 06/30/12.

omg, hbd chick!! what have you done?!?!

don’t worry. i backed them up here. (^_^) *whew!*

by “backing up” i mean “cut-and-paste,” which means the links don’t appear in the backup post. but i’ve got them in the blog backup files — so if you really want a link from an old open thread comment, just ask. (^_^)

that is all!

links don’t appear in this backup post. but i’ve got them in the blog backup files — so if you really want a link from an old open thread comment, just ask. (^_^)

Hail

02/19/2011 at 3:48 PM

The Caspian Sea on the map above is woefully out of all proportion to its realistic shape and size. Please forward my complaint to the map-maker.

hbdchick

02/19/2011 at 10:30 PM

@hail – heh! (^_^) well, silly ol’ johannes was always so busy looking up rather than down…. (~_^)

j

02/20/2011 at 6:46 AM

Quoting Bertold Brecht shows you are no chick! But I like you.

j

02/20/2011 at 7:05 AM

Bahrain? The English did it. That horrible island at two days navigation from Batzra was nothing before the oil companies made it into their depot some 70 years ago. A most destitute and miserable family lived there near the only spring in Manama. The current population – of all races and religions – is of recent origin and came to work for the oil company. Giving names to the ethnic groups in flow does not make them crystallized and solid political entities.

j

02/20/2011 at 7:16 AM

Sorry, You say you are a chick so you are a chick. I assumed that you are not a teenager chick, as the rarely quote Brecht.

hbdchick

02/21/2011 at 7:46 AM

@j – “That horrible island at two days navigation from Batzra was nothing before the oil companies made it into their depot some 70 years ago.”

bahrain had a good economy for a couple of hundred years based upon pearling and, later, trade. not to mention that it was important because of its strategic location in the gulf.

it certainly wasn’t a destitute place as you describe it. if it had been, why would the al khalifa, the persians, the brits, et. al., have been so interested in controlling the place? — all before oil was ever discovered?

j

02/23/2011 at 9:16 PM

…why would the al khalifa, the persians, the brits, et. al., have been so interested in controlling the place?

(1) Was there any place on Earth that the brits et al were NOT interested in controlling?

(2) Manama had a miserable economy of fishing, pearling, oasis gardening, and some trade with the peninsula. “Miserable” is my opinion, as in the eyes of a famelic beduin nomad it was a rich metropolis.

j

03/02/2011 at 8:34 PM

Re Sunni vs Shia. Isn’t it depressing?

hbdchick

03/02/2011 at 9:26 PM

@j – well, i don’t lose any sleep over it, if that’s what you’re wondering. (~_^)

hbdchick

03/06/2011 at 5:49 PM

a commenter calling himself francois left this on the al-hatfield vs. al-mccoy post, but since it didn’t really belong there, i thought i’d post it up here on the open thread:

from tea party chain email:

——–Forwarded Message——–

From a chain email:

Russell K. Nieli recently brought to light a new study by Princeton sociologist Thomas Espenshade and his colleague Alexandria Radford that shows that lower-income European Americans (poor whites) are the most discriminated against group of people in college admissions.

Nieli writes: “When lower-class whites are matched with lower-class blacks and other non-whites the degree of the non-white advantage becomes astronomical: lower-class Asian applicants are seven times as likely to be accepted to the competitive private institutions as similarly qualified whites, lower-class Hispanic applicants eight times as likely, and lower-class blacks ten times as likely. These are enormous differences and reflect the fact that lower-class whites were rarely accepted to the private institutions Espenshade and Radford surveyed.”

Get that? Not African Americans, not Mestizo Americans — but European Americans are the most discriminated against group in college admissions.

This widespread discrimination against European Americans should be unsurprising. And immigration is making it worse, as more non-whites immigrate here their “disparate impact” status makes them prime affirmative action candidates.

All other racial groups have powers lobbying on their behalf. Blacks have the NAACP, mestizos have La Raza, Asians have the 80-20 Initiative, Indians have USINPAC, etc. What do European Americans have?

When other groups lobby on behalf of their ethnic interests and whites do nothing, whites are bound to receive the short end of the stick. And all the while this is taking place, many whites pursue the “ostrich strategy”. They stick their heads in the sand and wish it were otherwise.

Time to take your heads out of the sand, white people.

j

03/06/2011 at 9:43 PM

Regarding Israeli Jewish consanguinity rates, you quote 50 years old data. I am sure that Jew living among Arabs had higher rates of consanguinity than the general population, and it was certainly the case among Ashkenazi Jews in Eastern Europe. But here in Israel the situation has changed dramatically. Intermarriage among Jewish communities has increased dramatically as ethnic neighborhoods are liquidated and the younger population is mixed. According to the Central Bureau of Statistics, last year about a quarter of the marriages was inter-ethnic and the rate is growing. One consequence of this process is that Israel’s younger population is completely unlike the founding population. Walking in Tel Aviv you cannot see the stunted stereotypic Jew so loved by European antisemites, but a different Mediterranean-looking people. We Jews are remaking ourselves here (and in a different way, in the USA too) so Jewish consanguinity figures of two generation back are no longer representative of reality.

hbdchick

03/06/2011 at 10:21 PM

@j – “According to the Central Bureau of Statistics, last year about a quarter of the marriages was inter-ethnic and the rate is growing.”

that’s interesting. thnx for the info!

j

03/11/2011 at 5:52 AM

Re Sunni vs Shia, isn’t it depressing that the real cause of this thousand years old theological and military conflict is that differ in a couple of bases, say guanine instead of adenine, while you know one can buy on the internet custom designed and synthesized genes delivered in as little as five days. Vanidad de vanidades, todo es vanidad.

Hail

03/12/2011 at 5:13 AM

“one can buy on the internet custom designed and synthesized genes delivered in as little as five days”

What??

j

03/13/2011 at 7:26 AM

Yes. You and anyone else can buy synthetic genes from commercial companies. They are used in research.

Hail

03/21/2011 at 8:36 PM

The perennially-clueless**, constnatly-blathering extreme-Neocon who posts as Whiskey has been absolutely flooding Steve Sailer’s blog with comments lately. I mean, one, two, three, four, five in a row. All long, verbose, lacking in logic or fact, and all with his typical fare of Loud Cluelessness with a dash of Neoconservatism and a pinch of white-ethnomasochism. It’s been quite a long time since I decided to simply skip over anything by him, but when others quote his posts, I sometimes end up reading them anyway.

** — (There is nothing worse than someone who does not know what they are talking about who goes on at length on some subject, or rather “blathers” about it, as I write above. There is ignorance, and then there is arrogant ignorance. Ignorance is excusable, arrogance can even be excusable, but arrogant ignorance is just repugnant.)

Hail

03/21/2011 at 8:37 PM

A few of the representative counter-comments in the past days:
1.) Albertosaurus wrote: Whiskey, you’re retarded. Please leave and stop polluting the comment section of an otherwise good blog.

2.) [Whiskey makes a characteristically-inane claim that Pakistan is a far superior nuclear power to Britain and France] Mr. Anon wrote: This is an assinine statement, even by your standards, Whiskey. [...]

3.) Felix wrote: Whiskey is such a clown. Britain and France have a total of EIGHT nuclear ballistic missile submarines between them…Combined, the UK and France possess ~500 fusion warheads, all of which can be delivered by highly advanced ballistic missiles with no chance of interception. In contrast Pakistan has a couple dozen puny fission devices (1940′s tech) that may or may not work if the day comes [...]

4.) Anonymous wrote: Since absolutely every factual statement Whiskey makes is false and I don’t have time to correct them all, I’ll just pick a couple: [...]

5.) A reference to one of Whiskey’s “greatest hits”: MQ wrote: Of course, in the past Whiskey has informed us that Spain is still today under threat from a violent invasion from Morocco, so I guess it’s all consistent.

6.) Alexandra Wallace With Epiphany wrote: I’m beginning to think most posts by Whiskey are bot-generated, given such repetitive fallacies peppered with specific facts that appear frequently falsified with a uniformly bias.

7.) [After Whiskey makes the (sigh) characteristically-inane claim that "Italy and France could become Muslim majority in a few months" unless we invade and occupy Libya, now!, now!, now!] Anonymous wrote: Whiskey, if you seriously think it is possible for 10 million people (which by the way even on a generous estimate would have to include every last human being within Libyan territory) to cross the Mediterranean in the space of a few months, and then, within the same few months, to turn France and Italy (combined population 125 million) into “Muslim majority” nations, then you are officially the stupidest person on the internet.

8.) [In response #7’s “then you [Whiskey] are officially the stupidest person on the internet.”] Truth wrote: LM-GD-AO! You must be new here. On the Whiskey scale of stupidity, that one was a 6, 6.5 tops. [lists several other "greatest hits of Whisk-inanity]…

9.) Albertosaurus wrote: After reading these comments on this difficult and complex issue I’d rather have our foreign policy be directed by these commenters than by Obama, Clinton, and the State Department. All of the comments here reveal an impressive breath of knowledge and judgement in their authors — except Whiskey of course.

10.) And finally, a parody of Whiskey’s typical style. (Anti-Gnostic is not an arm-flailing Neocon fool, he sometimes uses irony to make his points, as Sailer himself does).

None

03/27/2011 at 7:44 PM

———- Forwarded Message ———-

Although Paris Hilton may be a twit, she apparently has good judgement about black men:

http://theurbandaily.com/gossip-news/theurbandailystaff2/paris-hilton-black-men-gross/

To redeem herself for showing preference for her own race (genophilia), she will probably now date 12 black men.

Always Frosty

04/04/2011 at 9:07 AM

I posted your Cousin Marriage Conundrum article over on Reddit along with another one by a different author on birth defects in the the immigrant community in the UK. The response has been hilariously negative. How many of these guys are banging their cousins?

http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueReddit/comments/giamz/cousin_marriage_conundrum/

hbdchick

04/04/2011 at 6:30 PM

@always frosty – thnx! (^_^)

i spend more time than i’d like to admit on reddit (just lurking). the natives are very pc, of course, but there’s still a lot that is entertaining|informative. (^_^)

D

04/11/2011 at 1:09 AM

So, I’ve just read that “Whites are Their Own Enemies” on the “In mala fide” blog or whatever the fuck it’s called. Ignoring my opinion of the writer (pretty much every author there is a whiny, dickless, moralizer), F. Bardamu just came across one of the few worthwhile insights I’ve ever seen on these “HBD Blogs”.

Ironically, despite being an old-woman moralizer, Bardamu is one of the few people to FINALLY realize that Old World, Anglo-Saxon moralizing, something the HBD folk ALWAYS do, is the very thing that is destroying the White Race – and, indeed, life ITSELF – to begin with! In this sense, “Whites” are not really their own enemies. It’s the Anglo-Saxons and the Christians, those boring moralizers, that have led to a turn for the worst. All this talk of “tolerance” lol, “politeness” lol, “free speech” lol, “altruism” lol, “nationalism” lol, “united we stand” lol, “respect” lol, “we the people” lol, “activism” lol, “civil rights” lol, “ethical progress” lol – this Liberalism, a secular offshoot of decadent Christian attitudes, and multicultural decay were a necessary conclusion to centuries of slave-morality. The more lion-hearted races – the Japanese and the Finnish – would have none of it! Thousands of utterly worthless pages of “equality doesn’t exist” this and “Blacks are inferior” that and “Democracy sucks balls” this – tautologies! – and a whiny moralizing shit writes the only worthwhile “HBD” article of the past 4 years – and by sheer luck! Bigger lulz cannot be had!

What we are about to enter is an age that will bring a return to a more demanding, more intolerant, more selfish, more aristocratic, more warlike, more beast-like, more lion-hearted, more instinctive, more noble spirit. The common man will likely perish under the coming age and will, inevitably, lead to a higher type of man. Yet, this is not something to grow “sad” over – we (higher types) leave that to the old women and the Christians. We merely analyze, rank which is higher and lower, and use these “problems” (as if the world had problems!) to our advantage. And even still, the decadance of the French Revolution created Napoleon – the Revolution is justified. In this sense, while still contemptible and disgusting, multiculturalism and Liberalism were necessary, justified and redeemed.

hbdchick

04/12/2011 at 5:20 PM

@d – somebody’s been reading nietzsche, i see! (~_^) (not that there’s anything wrong with that!)

j

04/18/2011 at 9:55 PM

This is probably the first time I’ve ever seen the word ‘lesbian’ used in a piece or associated with the college. Ever.”

Obviously, the problem is semantic. Lesbian is offensive to Lesbians, those from the Greek Island of Lesbos. I propose to adopt the Spanish version: “tortillera” or “marimacha”.

hbd chick

04/19/2011 at 3:59 AM

@j – ha! (~_^)

j

05/14/2011 at 3:24 AM

The Alpenhorn blowers look Swiss.

hbd chick

05/14/2011 at 9:38 AM

@j – you could be right, but then they’re prolly germanic swiss anyway. close enough. (~_^)

actually, those big horns (or similar ones) are used from french switzerland all the way over to the carpathians. who knew?!

j

05/16/2011 at 1:23 AM

>i<…distaste for reality…

Isnt it justified? Reality is far below my expectation. I want a world of people like me.

hbd chick

05/16/2011 at 10:24 AM

@j – “I want a world of people like me.”

oh, yes! wouldn’t THAT be nice! a world of people like ME! (^_^)

(actually, i would prolly just irritate and annoy myself.) (~_^)

you do make a good point, tho. (some parts of) reality is definitely below my expectations, too. however, in order to get the best out of life (especially in order to get the best out of life for our kids), i think we have to deal with reality. it’s annoying, but i think it must be done.

j

05/16/2011 at 10:55 AM

I cant deal with my kids’s reality. For one, I’ll be mostly dead. And I have enough dealing with my own @¡?#! reality or whatever it is.

hbd chick

05/16/2011 at 12:01 PM

@j – “I cant deal with my kids’s reality. For one, I’ll be mostly dead.”

well, what i meant was, we can all try to leave our kids the best possible world for them in which to thrive. obviously there are potential conflicts between populations here. for instance, jewish israeli parents and palestinian parents might have different ideas on what sort of future environment is best for their kids. in fact, different jewish israeli populations (i’m thinking orthodox vs. others) prolly have different ideas on how to set up the future for their kids.

true, we’ll be dead (eventually). but we can try to influence the future now. in fact, we do whatever actions we take in the present.

j

05/17/2011 at 2:28 AM

It is futile to try to improve my kid’s future. Money and position never last. Education… they do it by themselves and any paternal intervention is counterproductive. They are much more ambitious than I am. From my gens point of view, the best would be to ensure them membership in a large cohesive protective tribe. My return to the Orthodox judaism of my ancestors would guarantee that but it is too late for me.

j

05/23/2011 at 2:36 AM

I dont know what is your problem. US Government zombie experts’s advice seems to me very reasonable.

Plan your evacuation route. When zombies are hungry they won’t stop until they get food (i.e., brains), which means you need to get out of town fast! Plan where you would go and multiple routes you would take ahead of time so that the flesh eaters don’t have a chance!

Americans should thank God for having a Government that protects them, thinks for them and plans ahead for them. I wonder if there is a contingency plan for the Second Coming too.

hbd chick

05/23/2011 at 9:54 AM

@j – “Americans should thank God for having a Government that protects them, thinks for them and plans ahead for them.”

heh. (^_^)

RS

05/23/2011 at 6:58 PM

For those that liked existential star wars:

http://www.losanjealous.com/nfc/perm.php?c=109&q=91

http://www.losanjealous.com/nfc/perm.php?c=41&q=270

http://www.losanjealous.com/nfc/perm.php?c=138&q=101

http://www.losanjealous.com/nfc/perm.php?c=75&q=249

http://www.losanjealous.com/nfc/perm.php?c=152&q=11

RS

05/24/2011 at 1:05 PM

For those that liked existential star wars, more family circus Nietzsche favorites:

http://www.losanjealous.com/nfc/perm.php?c=109&q=91

http://www.losanjealous.com/nfc/perm.php?c=41&q=270

RS

05/24/2011 at 1:05 PM

Oops, double post

hbdchick

05/24/2011 at 1:33 PM

@r.s. – “Oops, double post”

that’s ’cause this is one of those echo-chamber blogs. (~_^)

j

05/24/2011 at 9:41 PM

We Ashkenazi Jews do not “descend from Imperial Russia” but from Judeans (aka Jews) brought to Rome by Emperor Titus.

JG

05/28/2011 at 4:03 PM

Your portrait on the “hbd chick?” page is kinda cute.

You sure that you are not in the market? :-)

hbdchick

05/28/2011 at 4:09 PM

@jg – heh. (^_^)

Fred

06/02/2011 at 1:10 PM

Seems like your thing:http://www.jameshance.com/wookiee-the-chew.html

Or have you seen this already?

hbd chick

06/02/2011 at 2:01 PM

@fred – “Seems like your thing.”

TOTALLY my sort of thing! (^_^) i have seen it and it’s waiting in my que of star wars things to post — but thnx for reminding me about it! (^_^)

j

06/04/2011 at 1:01 AM

Vár állott, most kőhalom,
Kedv s öröm röpkedtek,
Halálhörgés, siralom
Zajlik már helyettek.
S ah, szabadság nem virul
A holtnak véréből,
Kínzó rabság könnye hull
Árvánk hő szeméből!

Your English translation is very poor. kinzo is not tortous but full of tortures
rabsag means a person living in captivity and not slavery
Arvank refers specifically to our orphans
and so on.

The mongol invasions were no fun, but agree that the hymn may contain an excessive measure of self-pity.

hbd chick

06/04/2011 at 8:57 AM

@j – “Your English translation is very poor.”

ah! well, i just got it from wikipedia, so what can you expect. (~_^)

do you speak hungarian?

j

06/04/2011 at 8:06 PM

I can speak nothing else but Hungarian, even when I am speaking other languages. Hungarian is for life.

hbdchick

06/04/2011 at 8:14 PM

@j – cool! (^_^)

RS

06/06/2011 at 8:42 PM

How do you address the possibility of a Flynn-Lynn-like effect on C? I am not sure Lynn really does so in a strong way in ‘Dysgenics’.

From the info on page 114 it looks pretty likely that genotypic C is declining (with some calculuations I could check)… but if there’s some really long lasting FL-like effect on C, which is conceivable, it might not matter for a long time. C could even rise for some generations. Why not?

It’s the case though that the FL-like effect on height ended at the same time as the IQ effect. There’s a good chance that that was when any & all FL-like effects ended.

As I have said before, if C really is declining (maybe even faster than IQ, Lynn suggests), it really matters…. considering how it’s C * IQ = achievement, not C + IQ.

RS

06/06/2011 at 8:45 PM

The data on page 114 are per generation… they don’t even address the fact that generation time differs by IQ and maybe by C within-race. Overall, it’s possible all this is really quite bad in magnitude.

hbd chick

06/06/2011 at 9:36 PM

@rs – “Overall, it’s possible all this is really quite bad in magnitude.”

iow, you’re saying we’re scr*wed (if conscientiousness in personality is really rapidly declining).

RS

06/07/2011 at 9:30 AM

Yeah. It would be great to actually calculate the IQ and C for 2050, including racial change, differential gen time within-race — the whole thing.

I think it can be done for IQ. Sailer took a crude stab at that here:

http://www.vdare.com/sailer/061217_idiocracy.htm

While Sailer seems to have just semi-guessed, Charles Murray has put forth some information on generation time by IQ. The truth is out there.

The problem is really C. Somewhere in the book, Lynn looks at changes in criminality or antisocial behavior or something, on the belief that these are largely caused by low C and are therefore an index of C. And that’s where he suggests C is declining significantly faster (presumably meaning, in SD units) than IQ. But that’s not really a method with the same strong level of epistemic value as say, IQ testing over time has. A method examining the whole distribution of C would be much better than a method examining the rates of very low C. And then there’s a problem of how purely a product of C these antisocialities are. We know rather clearly that adult IQ is not altered by the social environment or by any sort of ‘do-gooder’ interventions. I doubt that we really know that about these antisocialities; they may well be able to be affected by culture and social environment.

Even if one cannot remove all the uncertainty about what the value of IQ * C will be in 2030 or 2050 relative to today, it does look bad, and there are a ton of other econo-pessimistic facts to note, from demographic aging, to everything else in Cowan’s recent book — boy, are there a lot of bad trends.

As I’ve noted at various blogs, we aren’t all going to starve to death or something, even if GDP/head were (over a few decades) to decline very, very dramatically to $20,000 or even $17,000. Clearly the biggest problem presented by all this ‘dysgenics, etc’ is the possibility that it will favor untoward political movements, such as jingo-militaristic ones, etc. People will be more manipulable, and a greater fraction of people will face varying levels of desperation. Some will even be hungry, though far from a majority will be. Some will live without sewers or police, as in Brazil. All that’s a big part of the recipe for wacky political developments.

hbd chick

06/08/2011 at 1:47 AM

hey rs — if you run the numbers (whatever they might be) on this and come up with something interesting and wanna write it up, lemme know. you’re welcome to have a guest post here if you like.

if yes, just write a reeeeeeeeeeeeally long comment (or two or three or however many it takes) and i can make it a blog post. (^_^)

(or lemme know if you post something on this elsewhere, like on your own blog! then i can link to it.)

RS

06/08/2011 at 5:39 PM

I’ll def let you know, should I ever actually do anything.

I guess one option is regress, for IQ, the differential gen time and completed fertility by education, and call the residual C. If I’m using those terms correctly.

But that only permits estimation of change in genotypic C, whereas predicting future phenotypes the desideratum.

Maybe there’s actually literature on this from recent years; Lynn’s “Dysgenics” is 15 years old.

La Griffe once modeled future GDP/capita, but it was just racial change that he did. No dysgenesis, no demographic aging.

One problem with considering the Flynn effect ‘real’, is that GDP/capita growth didn’t change much at all upon exhaustion of the Flynn change circa 1980. It could be that a lot of the growth from 2000-2008 was fake, but surely not most of that from 1980-2000.

Assistant Village Idiot

06/08/2011 at 5:39 PM

RS, greatly agree, but “Clearly the biggest problem presented by all this ‘dysgenics, etc’ is the possibility that it will favor untoward political movements, such as jingo-militaristic ones, etc. People will be more manipulable…” If you’ve seen Steve Hsu’s site, you might be equally worried about the manipulableness of elites. http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2011/01/credentialism-and-elite-employment.html.

hbd chick, caught your comment at steve sailer’s (and commented further) and came over. I will likely link back from my own site.

hbd chick

06/08/2011 at 6:52 PM

@avi – “I will likely link back from my own site.”

thnx! (^_^) linked to your blog in my blogroll … way down there ↓ .

Patrick Casey

06/09/2011 at 12:04 PM

regarding the origin of the phrase “the exception proves the rule”: Bill Bryson wrote in The Mother Tongue that the phrase originally meant the exception tests the rule–prove also meaning “to test” at the time.

hbd chick

06/09/2011 at 6:01 PM

@patrick – heh! (^_^)

a long time ago (in a galaxy far, far away…) i read bryson’s “notes from a small island” and to this day i still giggle at his description of women in the supermarket. when they get up to the cashier and everything has been scanned and it’s time to pay, they seem to be surprised that they have to take their money (or debit card) out (at this point they start searching in their purse for their wallet) and actually PAY for their shopping! he thought it funny that they (ok, ok, WE) almost never have their money about beforehand … like they’ve never been shopping before. (^_^) makes me laugh every time i’m in the store and see that happen. (^_^)

Patrick Casey

06/10/2011 at 2:14 AM

Ha! Thats about the only other particular passage I remember from any of his books–I suppose thats so because I’ve never seen an exception that tests the rule ;) A Walk In The Woods was too depressing to finish; I had no idea so many types of trees had been totally wiped out by disease over ages not very far back.

Regarding the causal connection you posited between tribalism and inbreeding, my instincts say you’re right. However, I can think of one link you might be missing. Soldiers develop a tribal bond with their platoon mostly because they live and work together in such close quarters. When extended families lived together and farmed together they probably developed the same type of tribal bond. The key to tribalism might be environmental proximity rather than genetic proximity. That was essentially Emile Durkheim’s conclusion in Anomie: organic solidarity gave way to mechanical anomie with the introduction of industrialization, the drawing apart of family members into factories. You should see how closely the two trends–tribalism and inbreeding–parallel under a microscope of history. it would make a great paper either way I’m sure.

Always Frosty

06/27/2011 at 4:06 PM

Most combat units, even more so for special operations units, are specially filtered to find people who can both perform well and work in a team. No one can get through SOF selection if the trainers wouldn’t want you on their team. There is a lot of pressure to keep people from turning into prima donnas within the group before the bonds are ever forged in actual combat.

j

07/20/2011 at 8:39 AM

In the Weekly Portion, we learn that God favours cousin marriage.

http://h2oreuse.blogspot.com/2011/07/zelophehads-daughters-cousin-marriage.html

j

08/24/2011 at 7:51 PM

Cracks in America’s phallic totem! Time to panic! A white mare has to be sacrificed to the angry gods!

hbd chick

08/25/2011 at 12:21 PM

@j – that is one, big phallus, isn’t it?! (^_^)

j

08/28/2011 at 9:00 PM

Nice recap. It also may partly explain why outbred societies have lower reproductive growth, if any. If an individual’s genes are wide distributed in a large population, it makes little sense for him personally to reproduce – others will do it for him. On the other hand, an inbred clan has to do the work itself to pass on its specific genes, as no others seem to carry them. The loss of reproductive urge seems to happen everywhere a tribal/clannish society turns into a large indifferentiated human mass, like in late Greece and Rome. Today, Japan, China and of course Europe.

hbd chick

08/29/2011 at 2:59 AM

@j – yes, i think you’re right on target there, j. i’ve been thinking along the same lines myself. there does seem to be a “loss of reproductive urge” as you describe it when inbreeding rates drop.

Melykin

09/16/2011 at 7:08 PM

This is the only way I can figure out to leave comments. Is there some way to leave comments under each blog entry?

hbd chick

09/16/2011 at 10:21 PM

hey, mel! yes, there is. just click on the title of the post (like “clientelism in greece”) to open the full post. then the comments box will be at the end of the post. i moved your comment to the “clientelism” post, btw. (^_^)

Melykin

09/17/2011 at 1:31 PM

Thanks HBD chick!

j

09/30/2011 at 6:29 AM

chick, it would be interesting to see some statistics about genetic diseases in deeply inbred populations like those Pakistanis you mention. They should look like Charles II of Spain, the drooling imbecile that inherited the Habsburg Empire, but they dont. How much inbreeding depresses their mental and physical capabilities?

Many peoples discovered that inbreeding causes birth defects and they imposed social rules to avoid it. How is that these Pakistanis are not aware of the danger and on the contrary, they enforce it?

In the case of the Beduins of the Negev, they were living in permanent war of all against all and they had no social mechanism to interact peacefully with anyone, so they were forced to stay in the family. But Pakistanis are a large group and they dont need to fear their neughbors.

hbd chick

09/30/2011 at 3:06 PM

@j – i responded to your comments in the pakistan comment thread, j, ’cause they were good points that you made and i wanted to make sure that anyone reading the pakistan post saw them. (^_^)

j

10/01/2011 at 8:27 PM

Chickie, I am unconvinced by your conclusion “c’est la vie”. Having a defectous child is such a tragedy and cost that there must be very powerful reasons to inbreeding.

hbd chick

10/02/2011 at 10:24 AM

@j – “Having a defectous child is such a tragedy and cost that there must be very powerful reasons to inbreeding.”

well, sure. there’re a bunch of different things pushing people towards inbreeding:

1) the drive to reproduce as many of your own genes as possible — if you mate with a relative, you get more bang for your buck;

2) economic reasons — keep the goats or the property or whatever in the family;

3) one reason that i keep thinking of that i haven’t really seen anyone else talk about — people are more attracted to those with whom they share genes, right? so, if you start down the inbreeding road, i wonder if you might be prone to even more inbreeding as time goes on, each generation finding their relatives even more attractive than the preceding ones.

j

10/02/2011 at 10:43 AM

My cousins (girls) are certainly very attractive.

hbd chick

10/02/2011 at 10:50 AM

@j – well, there you go! (^_^)

j

10/04/2011 at 8:45 AM

I am for Kissing Cousins but none is at hand, they live in Argentina, Canada, Australia, Hungary, etc. Inbreeding being impossible, I have to do with what is available.

Linked to your blog.http://h2oreuse.blogspot.com/2011/10/koko-on-inbreeding.html

hbd chick

10/04/2011 at 3:49 PM

@j – “Inbreeding being impossible, I have to do with what is available.”

heh! hard times, hard times. (^_^)

D

10/06/2011 at 1:50 AM

Whoa. Been a while. I apologize if I came off as a little abrasive before.

Anyway, I’d like to say good work on the blog. Despite some flaws, this is pretty much the only “HBD”-centric blog I have any respect for. And good Nietzsche call there!

hbd chick

10/06/2011 at 8:08 PM

@d – “I apologize if I came off as a little abrasive before.”

eh, no problem! (^_^) (i had to go back and find your previous comment to see what might’ve been abrasive ’cause i couldn’t remember anything in particular, so you obviously didn’t leave any scars. (~_^) )

@d – “this is pretty much the only “HBD”-centric blog I have any respect for.”

yay! i’m finally commanding respect! now if i could only manage to do the same here at home. (~_^)

srsly — thnx for the compliment. (^_^)

j

10/08/2011 at 2:59 AM

about inbreeding

hbd chick

10/08/2011 at 10:39 AM

@j – heh! yeah — i’ve always like the muppets version. (^_^)

j

10/12/2011 at 2:02 AM

On the other hand, in another passage, the Bible, in its wonderful consistency, forbids marriage (not only that, but also SEX!) between individuals related – up to seven generations.

Apparently the tabu was not strictly enforced, as the story of Noah and his daughters recalls.

hbd chick

10/12/2011 at 2:06 AM

@j – “On the other hand, in another passage, the Bible, in its wonderful consistency, forbids marriage (not only that, but also SEX!) between individuals related – up to seven generations.”

well that’s interesting! do you recall where that is in the bible? (just being lazy here. i guess i could look it up, too. (~_^) )

j

10/12/2011 at 9:01 AM

ההלכה בעדה החשיבה את הזמד בתור אחים ואחיות ולכן אסרה נשואים לטווח שבעה הדורות שמקורו בספר ויקרא:

וְאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר יִקַּח אֶת אֲחֹתוֹ בַּת אָבִיו אוֹ בַת אִמּוֹ וְרָאָה אֶת עֶרְוָתָהּ וְהִיא תִרְאֶה אֶת עֶרְוָתוֹ חֶסֶד הוּא וְנִכְרְתוּ לְעֵינֵי בְּנֵי עַמָּם עֶרְוַת אֲחֹתוֹ גִּלָּה עֲו‍ֹנוֹ יִשָּׂא
– ספר ויקרא, פרק כ’, פסוק י”ז

I know only in Hebrew the Ve-Yikrah Book Chapter Kaf paragraph yud zayin
Maybe someone can identy it in English.

j

10/12/2011 at 9:03 AM

hbd chick

10/12/2011 at 9:42 AM

@j – awesome! thanks. (^_^)

hbd chick

10/12/2011 at 10:39 AM

@j – “I know only in Hebrew the Ve-Yikrah Book Chapter Kaf paragraph yud zayin”

thnx! that’s leviticus chapter 20, verse 17:

“And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness: it is a shameful thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of the children of their people: he hath uncovered his sister’s nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.”

but i don’t really see how the beta israel/other ethiopians got seven generations out of that. they must’ve got the idea from somewhere else — or invented it on their own.

Justthisguy

11/23/2011 at 1:02 PM

Say, what’s up with The Cold Equations? Some time between Sunday night and Monday morning, he took his blog private.

hbd chick

11/23/2011 at 1:48 PM

@justthisguy – “Say, what’s up with The Cold Equations?”

yeah, i dunno. -??- i actually just removed him from my blogroll ’cause that’s just awkward (been refurbishing the blogroll). shame. good blog.

Justthisguy

11/23/2011 at 3:24 PM

Maybe he was afraid of getting Dooced? It may be too late for him, unless he’s taken advantage of that feature of the Internet Archive which allows you to delete things retrospectively. Even so, people might have saved local copies of his stuff. The Internet is a dangerous servant and a scary master, to paraphrase George Washington.

j

01/04/2012 at 10:57 AM

About Ashkenazi mating patterns, I can tell about my own family. We are part of the large 19th Century immigration to Hungary from the Northern parts of the Hapsburg empire, that is from Moravia, Slovakia, etc. My grandfather reached the Southernmost part in Jaszbereny (South of Budapest) but we had relatives all along the way. Marriage pattern: my relatives mostly found husbands/wives from a small number (5 – 6) families, so we are all cross-bred among us. What is notable the geographical dispersion of these cluster of families all along the the way from South to North and the maintainance of close contacts across the generations. I am describing the situation before WWII, after the war no one remained, most were dead and the few survivors dispersed all over the world. Facebook and genealogy sites connected us once more.

hbd chick

01/04/2012 at 5:42 PM

@j – “What is notable the geographical dispersion of these cluster of families all along the the way from South to North and the maintainance of close contacts across the generations.”

that is very interesting! thnx for sharing. (^_^)

@j – “after the war no one remained, most were dead”

=(

Curt Doolittle

01/05/2012 at 2:29 PM

http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2012/01/the_bell_curve.html

Thoughts?

hbd chick

01/05/2012 at 8:37 PM

@curt – interesting. thnx for sharing that!

i feel that i should read murray’s original article first so that my thoughts on what kling said have any chance of making some sense (and there’s no guarantees that they will even after i’ve done so! (~_^) ), so i’ll get back to you on this. hopefully i can give it a read this evening.

curtd59

01/20/2012 at 10:59 AM

@HBD* Chick:

FYI:

See this article on the rapidity at which classes become castes:

http://westhunt.wordpress.com/2012/01/13/class-caste-and-genes

It was referenced by this mainstream economics blog:

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2012/01/assorted-links-341.html?

hbd chick

01/20/2012 at 3:23 PM

@curt – “See this article on the rapidity at which classes become castes.”

thnx, curt! i did see that, but i didn’t see the marginal revolution post. will have to head over there to see what the economists have to say. (^_^)

small note – i’d rewrite your above comment to read: “See this article on the rapidity at which classes may become castes.”

harpending’s model is just that – a model. a pretty convincing one, imho – but still a model.

rjp

01/30/2012 at 8:12 PM

You need a favicon. Download it here.
Change name to favicon.ico

To add it to your site upload to the folder you use for images.
I don’t know if you you use the root folder but it’s address would be:

http://hbdchick.wordpress.com/favicon.ico

if you did. Or maybe

http://http://hbdchick.wordpress.com/images/favicon.ico

if you upload to an image folder.

Next, insert the below code in the section of your page.

now if you upload to another folder other than the root it might look like:

On some hosts thought you have to use the whole address ..

Here are the actual WP directions:

http://codex.wordpress.org/Creating_a_Favicon

You know my email.

rjp

01/30/2012 at 8:14 PM

Interesting …. the code didn’t post … i can email to you tomorrow or you can do a little research.

hbd chick

01/30/2012 at 9:45 PM

@rjp – “You need a favicon.”

i’ve been thinking about that! thanks for the info. i’ll take a look at it (prolly over the weekend.) (^_^)

LInton Herbert

02/13/2012 at 4:34 AM

In regards to “crafting the message,” I have no agenda but here’s something to consider. The individual in the host country makes a small sacrifice when there is immigration (press one for English) but the immigrant makes an enormous sacrifice. I think it has been documented that the fertiltiy of immigrants plummets within a few generations. Maybe somebody could warn them.

hbd chick

02/13/2012 at 10:31 AM

@linton – i’m going to copy your comment and paste it into the comments thread on the “crafting the message” post. if you click on the title of a post (like “crafting the message”), then that post will open and you can leave a comment at the bottom. (^_^)

Anonymous

02/14/2012 at 6:32 AM

Real pleasure to find this site which has got me thinking. Looking at the world through the lens of consanguinity would it help to make a distinction between the genetic and cultural consequences? Specifically has the ability of the US to mold immigrants in its own image been a function of the former of the latter? It seems in my travels there that there is a remarkably high level of consensus on the advisability of the “empty nest” model among second generation immigrants of all backgrounds. And of course that is just the start — the buy-in extends to the whole world of “What White People Like”. The central reason for this is that all immigrants with one notable exception chose to move to the US in the first place.

My personal hunch is that the while consanguinity does have genetic disadvantages it is not a trait that is selected for. What it does do is affect peoples motives and imagination, in the way that being born in a small village may, and the best way to escape both it to go the US.

hbd chick

02/14/2012 at 3:16 PM

@anonymous – “Looking at the world through the lens of consanguinity would it help to make a distinction between the genetic and cultural consequences?”

ah, but is there a difference? where does culture come from? (~_^)

With the thoughts you'd be thinkin

02/14/2012 at 9:38 PM

http://www.paradoxplaza.com/games/crusader-kings-ii

A game about succesion in medievel europe, thought it might interest you

LInton Herbert

02/15/2012 at 4:47 AM

You say the “empty nest” is typical already in the first generation? That’s a lot worse than I thought. “Empt nest” or no chidren migh have advantages somewhere, but not for the society at large. We need children to carry on, and if you don’t care about that, whoever is going to feed you when you are old started as a baby.

Anonymous

02/15/2012 at 9:45 AM

maybe i’ve misunderstood the concept of empty nest here, but I thought it was the idea that once children has come of age (16, 18 or 21 depending on who you ask) they should no longer live with their parents. ie. not wait until they get married or have children (or even later)

hbd chick

02/15/2012 at 3:57 PM

@anonymous – “maybe i’ve misunderstood the concept of empty nest here, but I thought it was the idea that once children has come of age (16, 18 or 21 depending on who you ask) they should no longer live with their parents. ie. not wait until they get married or have children (or even later)”

yes, that’s right. linton, on the other hand, is talking about people having few or no children — below replacement rate levels, anyway.

hbd chick

02/15/2012 at 5:09 PM

@With the thoughts you’d be thinkin – can i be joan of arc? i’ve always wanted to be joan of arc. (^_^)

With the thoughts you'd be thinkin

02/15/2012 at 6:15 PM

@ hbd chick noot in the time frame of 1066-1366.

With the thoughts you'd be thinkin

02/15/2012 at 6:16 PM

Typing with my phone should be not.

hbd chick

02/15/2012 at 6:25 PM

@with the thoughts you’d be thinkin – “@ hbd chick noot in the time frame of 1066-1366.”

drat. (^_^) but, sounds like i can invade england, tho. cool! (~_^)

With the thoughts you'd be thinkin

02/15/2012 at 10:03 PM

here’s the demo:

http://www.fileplanet.com/224596/220000/fileinfo/Crusader-Kings-II-Demo

if you want to try it

LInton Herbert

02/16/2012 at 4:13 AM

@ anonymous about empty nest: OK. That makes sense. My mistake. Thanks. I see hbd chick has clarified it.

hbd chick

02/16/2012 at 10:00 PM

@wttybt – thanks! (^_^)

eric

02/22/2012 at 7:23 AM

Hey, Zhai has some sort of question for you, though I have no idea what it is:

http://postgygaxian.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/micro-races-tribes/

hbd chick

02/22/2012 at 10:38 PM

@eric – thnx!

Olave d'Estienne

03/27/2012 at 3:46 PM

Hey, email me your email address and I’ll cut you in on my nifty proposal.

JayMan

04/02/2012 at 10:40 AM

Here’ something for you to chew on:

ABC News aired a story last week about a study released by the CDC that shows that there appears to be a significant rise in the rate of autism spectrum disorders (see and here). Besser seems to indicate that the rate of increase is so stark that better and/or more inclusive diagnosis couldn’t be solely responsible for the jump.

However, he repeatedly stressed that the cause of autism is “unknown”—which we know is patently untrue. ASDs clearly have a strong heritable component; I suppose that since the exact genes involved haven’t been identified and exact pathways to the expression of the phenotype hasn’t nailed down, the cause is officially “unknown”. But then, that’s true of a lot of things that are clearly heritable (like say IQ).

Going on the assumption that the apparently rise can’t be completely accounted for by better/broader diagnosis (which I not sure can be ruled out, yet), there is one possible explanation that seems to completely escape them: evolution. Years of treatment for autism would have, I would imagine, rendered a lot of autistics much more functional—especially for those with milder forms or on the cusp. It is not inconceivable that this has boosted the fecundity of those who carry genes for the trait. Assortative mating would also helped this along as well.

Of course, admitting that we may have a demonstrable example of human evolution happening in our lifetimes opens up a can of worms that they’d rather not open…

hbd chick

04/02/2012 at 4:23 PM

@jayman – “Here’ something for you to chew on.”

thanks! (^_^)

@jayman – “Besser seems to indicate that the rate of increase is so stark that better and/or more inclusive diagnosis couldn’t be solely responsible for the jump.”

you know, i just saw the headlines about this and didn’t read any details, but the thought that popped into my head was that at some point the “more inclusive diagnosis” explanation for the increase in autism cases — one which i’ve thought is pretty reasonable/likely — starts to seem UNlikely. interesting that the professionals are starting to think this, too.

@layman – “Years of treatment for autism would have, I would imagine, rendered a lot of autistics much more functional—especially for those with milder forms or on the cusp. It is not inconceivable that this has boosted the fecundity of those who carry genes for the trait. Assortative mating would also helped this along as well.”

i’d put my money on assortative mating. and, if simon baron-cohen is right with his engineers thesis, maybe being somewhat autistic (e.g. having asperger’s) has just been paying off fertility-wise for quite some time. i mean, the guys who build acqueducts and space ships earn pretty well … and wind up being pretty durned attractive at second glance. (~_^) never mind since the information age got going. h*ll, the auties invented that!

JayMan

04/03/2012 at 8:33 AM

Wouldn’t it be something if the modern age has suddenly given aspies a considerable selective advantage? There’s your explanation for the increase in the rate of autism right there.

It’s likely that AS traits have been somewhat evolutionarily useful for sometime. The benefit of being a technocrat is worth the occasional non-functional highly autistic child.

In fact, this works with a lot of things, like for example, bipolar disorder. Psychiatry professor Nassir Ghemi wrote book called A First-Rate Madness: Uncovering the Links Between Leadership and Mental Illness (which he talked about on The Colbert Report), in which he claimed that FDR was bipolar and that Abraham Lincoln was depressive.

Indeed, a lot of the more common mental disorders, like bipolar disorder, ASDs, ADD, OCD, and many of the personality disorders (which are themselves highly prevalent in the population) may be so common because they confer some selective benefit, either in mild doses or sometimes even full blown (imagine how reproductively successful someone like Charlie Sheen would be in a world with no birth control). Even though many individuals with one of these disorders are debilitatingly ill, for every such sufferer there are probably many more who are able to function, and probably many who even thrive thanks to their disorder. The loss of fertility from the most afflicted individuals is probably more than made up for those who benefit from just being touched.

I’ve seen a lot of hypotheses based on this idea, like the Orchid hypothesis about depressives. The problem for me is that most researchers who posit evolutionary theories of human behavior don’t do it with an HBD slant, and don’t consider that many of these traits are only useful to people living in civilized society or consider that they are not equally prevalent around the world. For example, bipolar disorder appears to be most prevalent among those of European descent, while ADD is absent from East Asia. These are clues into the evolution of these traits.

My gf’s motto is “Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit,” which translates to “there is no great genius without an element of madness.” It seems that there is quite a bit of truth to that…

hbd chick

04/05/2012 at 8:06 AM

@jayman – “The problem for me is that most researchers who posit evolutionary theories of human behavior don’t do it with an HBD slant, and don’t consider that many of these traits are only useful to people living in civilized society or consider that they are not equally prevalent around the world.”

yeah, i never buy this at all. i often see a 1% prevelance rate of schizophrenia worldwide. doubt it. i betcha the frequency is different in different populations. i’m sure the same is true with other things like autism as well.

Jonathan Gress-Wright

04/05/2012 at 3:27 PM

Is autism more prevalent among Ashkenazis?

hbd chick

04/10/2012 at 7:34 AM

@jonathan – “Is autism more prevalent among Ashkenazis?”

i don’t know. never seen anything about it one way or another. i have read somewhere (lord knows where) that adhd is quite prevelant amongst ashkenazis, but i don’t recall where i read that or if it’s more in than other north european populations.

jgress

04/11/2012 at 9:08 AM

I read on iSteve somewhere that Ashkenazis are strongest in verbal logic, while East Asians dominate in visual/spatial skills. Is this true? Autistic genius types I would imagine would tend to be more the East Asian than the Jewish type.

hbd chick

04/12/2012 at 7:25 AM

@jgress – “I read on iSteve somewhere that Ashkenazis are strongest in verbal logic, while East Asians dominate in visual/spatial skills. Is this true?”

yes, i’ve heard that, too. will have to read up on it more and perhaps do a post on that one day. someone suggested some sources in one of the comments here (lord knows where) which i shall have to follow up on. (^_^)

@jgress – “Autistic genius types I would imagine would tend to be more the East Asian than the Jewish type.”

that would be my guess, too. (^_^)

hbd chick

04/12/2012 at 7:30 AM

@jgress – i said: “someone suggested some sources in one of the comments here (lord knows where) which i shall have to follow up on.”

here is that comment. (^_^)

Gregory

04/12/2012 at 5:33 PM

Hey there HBD chick I’ve been reading through your articles and I’m enjoying it.

Just a question , what do you know about this regression towards the mean stuff?

Robert Lindsay (some blogger) decided to make a hypothetical response to this concept on race , here’s the link: http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2012/04/11/do-group-iqs-always-crash-back-down-to-the-mean/

He also make’s a strawman argument in claiming I’m just another one of those nationalists despite no evidence of it. When in reality , I’m a racial realist.

Gregory

04/12/2012 at 5:42 PM

Oops , accidently pressed enter after typing this for only 40 seconds. Didn’t have a chance to review.

But my question more specifically is if you do have knowledge on this concept , is this hypothetical argument by Robert fallacious?

hbd chick

04/15/2012 at 5:44 PM

@gregory – “But my question more specifically is if you do have knowledge on this concept , is this hypothetical argument by Robert fallacious?”

hey, gregory. sorry i didn’t answer this question of yours sooner — just making my way back to the blogosphere after a nice spring break. (^_^)

looks like you got unamused to answer your question anyway. what he — and aaron — had to say about regression to the mean seems spot on to me, as far as i understand the concept.

the individual members of a population will move towards the mean in both directions (i.e. up or down), but the mean (the average iq or whatever) depends on what population you’re talking about. if someone really did segregate out high iq individuals from whatever population to found a new population, the mean iq would probably be higher than what it had been in the parent population.

the problem with lindsay’s post was this sentence:

“Groups can’t keep endlessly regressing and crashing back down to the mean, otherwise no population would have ever seen an IQ increase.”

they do and will keep crashing down (and up) to the mean, unless there is some selection for higher iq in the population — that is, selection for some “genes for higher iq” in the population which must come from either mutations or introduction from elsewhere.

Chillingworth

04/20/2012 at 6:23 AM

Mrs. Chick,

Not sure whether this thread is where you would want tips that aren’t tied to an existing entry. Have you seen this?

http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2012/04/12/british-sperm-donor-fathered-as-many-as-600-children/

links to

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2126761/Bertold-Wiesner-British-scientist-fathered-600-children-donating-sperm-fertility-clinic.html

“A British scientist fathered up to 600 children after founding a fertility clinic that promised to provide sperm donors from ‘intelligent stock’, it emerged yesterday.”

(I know he is a very intelligent man, for he has told me so himself!)

(Who ever said the British newspapers were too much like tabloids?)

Bonus: The first time I read this sentence—
“The barrister found out in 1965, at the age of 12, that he was born from a sperm donor, but was never told who his biological father was.”
—I thought it said “The bastard”.

jgress

04/20/2012 at 10:13 AM

@hbdchick: Thanks!

I was reading an interesting piece by Ron Unz on American Conservative about how China’s economy will soon outstrip the US’s, and how this relates to the thesis of a couple of economists about different types of economy, “extractive” and non-extractive.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/chinas-rise-americas-fall/

The thesis is that countries with “extractive elites” result in wealth accumulating at the top, but ultimately the entire society is unstable, while the other kind of economy distributes wealth more evenly over the population and is more stable. They believe that China represents an extractive economy, and the US a non-extractive one, because the US has democracy and liberal institutions.

Unz argues that in fact it is the opposite, and that non-democratic China is in fact the non-extractive economy, since an objective measurement of the distribution of wealth, in particular of wealth increase as a result of economic growth, is more evident in China than here (witness how practically all of the wealth accumulated in the recent “recovery” went to the top 1% here).

He speculates as to the reasons, and one of them is that China’s elite is predominantly trained in engineering, i.e. they make stuff, while America’s elite is mainly trained in law, i.e. they manipulate stuff. That got me thinking about the East Asian/Jewish differences in cognitive ability. Both are highly intelligent, but have different specific skills. If we allow that America’s elite is disproportionately dominated by Ashkenazi Jews, then the patterns make some sense.

I’m glad there’s a forum where I can raise the issue and not be shot down as a racist-anti-Semitic etc etc!

jgress

04/20/2012 at 10:16 AM

Sorry I meant that an objective measurement of wealth distribution shows a more even spread of economic growth benefits across the population in China than in the US.

hbd chick

04/20/2012 at 11:45 AM

@jgress – here’s that comment that i mentioned where another commenter (matt, thnx matt!) cited some sources about jewish iq.

hbd chick

04/20/2012 at 11:52 AM

@jgress – as i was reading your comment, i was thinking that the u.s. used to have a non-extractive economy (or more of a non-extractive one), but not anymore! but then you (or unz) got to that point.

i don’t know about china. there are some awfully rich people there (with connections to the communist party regime) and some awfully poor folks in the countryside. maybe the latter’s economic position has, indeed, improved over the last couple of decades, but you’d think that was almost inevitable. when you start off at or near the bottom, you’d think some improvements in your economic status would be inevitable given all their hard work.

in other words, not sure i’m convinced that china’s economy is non-extractive, although i am convinced that today america’s economy is, unfortunately, extractive. =/

jgress

04/20/2012 at 11:55 AM

Yeah I saw that one, thanks!

What do you think of my other idea about different patterns among Chinese and American elites? Do you think there’s something there or not?

jgress

04/20/2012 at 11:55 AM

Oops didn’t see your last post.

jgress

04/20/2012 at 11:58 AM

Yeah a lot depends on the economic data and what we make of it. Is China’s wealth and growth really as fairly distributed as Unz claims? If not, then there is less reason to start speculating about possible ethnic factors.

hbd chick

04/20/2012 at 11:58 AM

@jgress – “If we allow that America’s elite is disproportionately dominated by Ashkenazi Jews, then the patterns make some sense.”

there can be cause for concern when the leaders/elite of a population are not of that population.

@jgress – “I’m glad there’s a forum where I can raise the issue and not be shot down as a racist-anti-Semitic etc etc!”

i want to try to understand all human populations (heh! — kinda a tall order, maybe…) and you’ve got to be able to raise all sorts of possibilities if you want to do that. h*ck — if you want to understand anything in life.

just for the record, though (and this is not directed towards you) — i won’t tolerate anyone making any sort of threatening comments towards any individuals or groups of peoples. just letting the internet know that. (~_^)

hbd chick

04/20/2012 at 12:03 PM

@chillingworth – “Have you seen this?”

i did see that! i saw the daily mail article about it. thanks for reminding me about it! (^_^) i was thinking of doing a post about it.

@chillingworth – “The first time I read this sentence—
‘The barrister found out in 1965, at the age of 12, that he was born from a sperm donor, but was never told who his biological father was.’
—I thought it said ‘The bastard’.”

heh! (^_^)

jgress

04/20/2012 at 12:31 PM

By the way, I wasn’t trying to imply that a heavily Jewish elite entails that this elite will actively try to exploit the rest of the population for their own gain. That’s a whole different discussion. My chain of reasoning was this: if Unz is right that America is an extractive economy (and it looks like we can agree on that), and if he’s right that top Americans are typically lawyers, i.e. have strong verbal logic, not so much strong spatial skills (maybe this is more debatable), and if it’s true that America’s elite is disproportionately Jewish (I suppose financial elite; political elite is not so obviously Jewish), then, given that Ashkenazi Jews are apparently stronger in verbal logic than spatial skills, i.e. skills that make good engineers, it follows that we would expect America’s elite to have more lawyers and fewer engineers than China’s elite, who are presumably all East Asians with innately good spatial skills and relatively poor verbal skills. And then the second part of Unz’s argument would apply: an elite of lawyers will inevitably end up doing lawyerly things like manipulate the economy for their own gain, without being very good at “engineering” constructive economic solutions for the whole country.

hbd chick

04/20/2012 at 12:47 PM

@jgress – “And then the second part of Unz’s argument would apply: an elite of lawyers will inevitably end up doing lawyerly things like manipulate the economy for their own gain, without being very good at ‘engineering’ constructive economic solutions for the whole country.”

yeah, that’s very good thinking, i think, and the way i’d be inclined to think about things, too: that people(s) do what they do and behave in the ways that they behave just because they’re naturally inclined to behave in those ways.

i dunno enough about the chinese economy to say whether it’s an extractive one or not, but i wouldn’t think china would be full of lawyers, either. full of bureaucrats, maybe, ’cause they do have a looong history of selecting for that sort of intelligence/personality type!

@jgress – “That’s a whole different discussion.”

i agree! sometimes individuals/people are exploitative, but not always. or, perhaps, not always in a way that’s completely detrimental to those being exploited. sometimes the “exploited” benefit, too.

but, like you say, that’s a whole different discussion!

jgress

04/20/2012 at 1:58 PM

Steve made a good point that, while different ethnic groups seem to concentrate in different economic niches according to their innate abilities, you will also find that societies at a given level of development will always have these niches, even if the ethnic makeup of the society wouldn’t otherwise predict it. For instance, in the US, your average gangster is not going to be East Asian, but in a country consisting only of East Asians, like Japan, you still have organized crime, staffed by East Asians. An advanced industrial society is going to spawn gangs, even if the ethnic group in question wouldn’t compete very well against other groups in dominating gangs.

So China is going to have the lawyers it needs, but put Chinese in competition with Jews and you’re going to have fewer Chinese lawyers.

There are arguably cultural reasons why a Jewish elite might be more exploitative, if you believe the arguments of e.g. Kevin Macdonald. I think he makes a good comparision between the Ashkenazis in the US and the overseas Chinese in Southeast Asia. Both occupy the typical economic middleman niche of higher IQ minority groups, but the Chinese in SE Asia are notably apathetic in politics. They’ve been content to be denied political rights in Malaysia, for example, on the understanding that they get to run the economy behind the scenes. Jews in the US, on the other hand, have been at the forefront of secularizing the public sphere and opening up the borders to immigration. They’re not content to dominate the country economically, as the Chinese might, but also ideologically.

Then again, if his thesis is right, this could also somehow tie back into their different cognitive abilities. Being more adept verbally means a more lawyerly, manipulative path to success, and different ideas of what it takes to succeed not just individually, but as an ethnic group.

As with all these discussions, I want to add my own boilerplate and acknowledge that you’re going to get individual differences etc etc. It’s just that we do have these larger patterns that do cry out for an explanation. Everything I just said might be BS, but at least we should talk about it. Thanks, hbdchick, for providing a forum to do so.

D

04/24/2012 at 4:17 PM

http://aryanism.net/politics/white-nationalists/why-race-matters/

This is, by far, one of the most intelligent things I’ve ever read on “race”.

And he even gets the “race = social construct” part right! Amazing.

Read it, criticize it, spread it around, etc.

Mr. Bob

04/26/2012 at 4:09 PM

Do you ever capitalize?

hbd chick

04/26/2012 at 5:17 PM

@mr. bob – “Do you ever capitalize?”

NO! (~_^)

hbd chick

04/27/2012 at 9:38 PM

@d – “This is, by far, one of the most intelligent things I’ve ever read on ‘race’.”

i don’t think it’s very intelligent. the guy obviously doesn’t understand genetic relatedness — or even basic biology, i think.

JayMan

05/09/2012 at 1:30 PM

You might be interested in this:

A Tale of Two Maps.

JayMan

06/28/2012 at 2:28 PM

Question: Can you folks still comment on my blog? I know I haven’t had a post up for awhile, but it’s strange that I haven’t had comments or spam for the last few days…

hbd chick

06/28/2012 at 3:58 PM

@jayman – “Can you folks still comment on my blog?”

just tried and i was unable to leave a comment (i tried on two different posts). i got an error message saying that my browser was not supported by mozilla browser id, but i’m using firefox 12.0, so that doesn’t make much sense. =/

JayMan

06/28/2012 at 6:08 PM

Hmm…try it now, without posting an e-mail.

Blog.com isn’t exactly the most cooperative as of late…

hbd chick

06/29/2012 at 3:55 AM

@jayman – “try it now, without posting an e-mail.”

that seems to have done the trick. (^_^)

JayMan

06/29/2012 at 4:54 AM

Thanks! So now I’m stuck in a little quandry, should I leave it we way it is, and put a disclaimer that an e-mail is not necessary, or should I go back to the way it was before with e-mail required but with the problems commenters have brought to my attention?

JayMan

06/29/2012 at 6:27 AM

In other news, have you seen this? Martin Sewell, Cambridge Don, Urged To Resign Over ‘Racist And Sexist’ Views

hbd chick

06/29/2012 at 9:30 PM

@jayman – “…should I leave it we way it is, and put a disclaimer that an e-mail is not necessary, or should I go back to the way it was before with e-mail required but with the problems commenters have brought to my attention?”

i prefer having comments as open as possible in order to let the discussion flow easily, that’s why i don’t require folks to give an email or even their real name. that policy could be changed, though, if the blog was beseiged by a bunch of pc hostiles or something.

a little housekeeping — it is saturday after all.

added some new links to the blogroll (down there ↓ right-hand column) over the past few weeks (hope this is all of them):

- aretae
artemis
bloody shovel
chariot of reaction
collapse: the blog
genes 2 brains 2 mind 2 me
human stupidity
jayman’s blog
ponerology
sociobiological musings
sociopath world
the reference frame

and a coupla new links on the science sites page (up top ↑):

- animal wise
body horrors
creature cast
mind matters @ big think
nothing in biology makes sense!
now for the science bit
palaeoblog
the last word on nothing

as you may or may not have noticed, i’ve got a lot of (*ahem*) conservative/altright/reactionary blogs in my blogroll — plus a few hbd ones — but i’d like to link to (and maybe even sometimes read!) some left-wing/liberal blogs. QUALITY ones — written by someone with at least half and brain and not filled with your run-of-the-mill, polictically correct blah, blah, blah. so, if anyone out there can recommend a quality left-wing blog or two, i’d be grateful. thnx! (^_^)

i’ve also been trying to clean up the categories (down there in the middle column ↓). got carried away and had waaaay too many of them. trying to cut back. i’ve got 29 now. might prune a few more in the coming days/weeks.

finally, i added a creative commons attribution license to the blog (the logo’s waaaay down toward the bottom of the right-hand column ↓). so, yeah, feel free to copy-and-paste whatever you find of interest from the hbd chick blog. an attribution would be mighty civil of ya (er, well, that’d actually be part of our tacit agreement according to the license).

that is all. (^_^)

a couple of updates:

1) first, a correction. to the cities of tribes post. i talked about the mating patterns in the medieval city of ragusa in sicily. that should’ve been the medieval city of ragusa now known as dubrovnik! (how was i supposed to know dubrovnik used to be called ragusa?! i’ve always thought ragusa was in sicily — which it is! (~_^) mind you, i was wondering why the author i quoted was talking about the slav families in ragusa. *facepalm*)

2) an update to the clientelism in greece post regarding land reforms in nineteenth century greece. here’s the update:

“regarding this quoted above: ‘Local cultures were never damaged by agricultural reforms….’ the agricultural or land reforms referred to happened when greece gained independence from the ottoman empire in 1835. land that had been a part of turkish-owned estates was redistributed to greek peasants. however, it was done in such a way that the peasants did not have to leave their natal villages (the story was very different in other part of europe, like sweden, where peasants were actually shifted around on the land). for the purposes of this blog, this means that the endogamous mating patterns of the greeks — marrying locally within the village or neighboring village — could go waaaaay back.”

settlement patterns — and any changes in settlement patterns — obviously affect mating patterns. they’re important to know.

that is all!

oh, wait. that’s not all. fyi, i (try to) post any updates in the updates section down there (↓) in the left-hand column.

(note: comments do not require an email. ragusa’s in sicily, g*shd*rnit!)

did a little housekeeping around here during the week (shame i can’t say the same about the house here!):

- added an rss feed (thnx, doug1!). it’s down there (↓) near the top of the left-hand column.

- added a few sites to the blogroll (you’re prolly familiar with many of them already):

glaivester
gucci little piggy
isegoria
mixed race studies
national policy institute
the soft path
west hunter

- also added a link to the “science sites” blogroll which is up top (↑):

bps research digest

that is all. (^_^)

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